Rebalance Savage damage to not require healer dps

[NanaWiloh]

Uh it is balanced around healer dps until you get to a certain item level which is not bis and its not min ilvl either.

Tell it Yoshi then as he said himself they dont balance for it. Please tell the Devs how they are balancing the fights, You also proved me correct. Saying until a certian ilvl hence you are under geared and being under geared leads to more dps being needed.

[Liam_Harper]

Tell it Yoshi then as he said himself they dont balance for it. Please tell the Devs how they are balancing the fights, You also proved me correct. Saying until a certian ilvl hence you are under geared and being under geared leads to more dps being needed.

Why keep ignoring facts?

E8S - 90725 Requirement.
-2 fully geared tanks playing very well, 18000 or so
-another 2k from melee lb, being very generous.
-Divide the remaining requirement among the 4 dps. Each needs to do 17,681 dps.

16600 is the absolute top percentile damage. It's literally not possible, gear or not. You're taking a vague quote from several years ago and claiming it as fact against solid mathematical proof.

[Jaelommiss]

Now the questions come:

Were those deaths to individual player stupidity? Greed of "just one more positional"? Or could they have been topped off but you didn't want to spend a GCD to heal them.

10/10 in E6S were one shot kills from failed mechanics. A lot of it cascaded from people being dead for subsequent mechanics.

10/11 in E7S were one shot kills from failed mechanics. The one exception was someone standing in an aoe that's technically survivable if full, but we relied on hots to top off the previous set of damage because what killed him is supposed to be avoided. Most of the deaths stemmed from a mistaken callout, standing in the wrong colour, or getting clipped by an orb during the tornado and needing to sac. Two deaths came from dps teleporting off the side, which might be related to greed.

The entire night was full of meme levels of player stupidity. I won't pretend that I've never killed people because I wanted to avoid a GCD heal, but it didn't happen that night.

To further illustrate just how little regard my cohealer and I have for out healing burden, we convinced our static to deliberately fail Spark Strike both times in E6S as our normal strat. Moving to a set location and healing the ~100k (closer to 85k after mitigation) + vuln is so much easier than doing the mechanic correctly because of how much oGCD healing is available. The vuln doesn't matter at all because damage is dealt to the party infrequently. This didn't contribute at all to any of the ten deaths we had.

[thegreatonemal]

Tell it Yoshi then as he said himself they dont balance for it. Please tell the Devs how they are balancing the fights, You also proved me correct. Saying until a certian ilvl hence you are under geared and being under geared leads to more dps being needed.

You're taking the quote out of context. They balance these fights around a healer doing no dps if the other dps are at a certain item level and doing about 80% of their theoretical output. So going in their week 1. Healers MUST dps week 2 same thing 3 same thing 4 same thing. We don't know what that item level is so you might as well dps as a healer until your bis and the dps are as well then I guess you don't have too anymore. Get the quote right next time.

[NanaWiloh]

Why keep ignoring facts?

E8S - 90725 Requirement.
-2 fully geared tanks playing very well, 18000 or so
-another 2k from melee lb, being very generous.
-Divide the remaining requirement among the 4 dps. Each needs to do 17,681 dps.

16600 is the absolute top percentile damage. It's literally not possible, gear or not. You're taking a vague quote from several years ago and claiming it as fact against solid mathematical proof.

FFlogs shiva savage 10th percentile kill duration 13:57 dps 86,363. What does your math say about that hmm??

[EONX_]

1. Healer DPSing is a very basic and simple requirement to those that play the role. If you're not casting you should be DPSing and in most cases it really is that simple. If you're playing properly and using your MP regeneration/saving skills, you won't have to worry about MP unless your either A) Running exceptionally low Piety and keeping your GCD rolling the whole time in a fight with very little/no downtime (for AST this can be a problem) B) Your party is actually bad and you have to continuously raise people/solo heal, or C) You're over-healing excessively. You would have to completely redesign Savage and how Healers work in this game in order to balance Healers only healing. Additionally, I genuinely do not understand why Healers needing to do damage is such a problem to people? You have to kill mobs in the overworld right? You have to kill enemies in solo-content right? That applies raids, savage raids, ultimate content, trials, extreme trials, PoTD, HoH etc, period.

2. Removing a DPS check in a savage encounter makes the fight DRAMATICALLY easier. If there's no soft/hard enrage and the same mechanics keep repeating themselves infinitely, the only challenge is getting through the mechanics with at LEAST a tank and any caster with MP so they can raise the entire party and keep going. If that were the case, once you've learned the mechanics you don't even need to execute, just don't wipe and you'll probably clear. A DPS check forces players to play well enough to clear the fight, optimize their damage when possible, and not make mistakes. If you take that away, you might as well just delete savage tbh, you've lost a huge percent of the challenge. If you can't make a DPS check with your party on a clean run, your party needs to get better, simple as that... Or just tell the healers that aren't DPSing start pressing those two-three buttons on their hotbars, . Savage isn't for everyone, don't make it accessible for those that want to put in 0 effort (arguably that can already be done in certain fights). More content, especially Normal Mode raids, should have DPS checks, not less.

OP is more than likely trolling but I thought I'd throw my hat into the ring as well. I'm tired of hearing people tell me that healer DPS isn't required and shouldn't be done, in Duty Finder.

[NanaWiloh]

1. Healer DPSing is a very basic and simple requirement to those that play the role. If you're not casting you should be DPSing and in most cases it really is that simple. If you're playing properly and using your MP regeneration/saving skills, you won't have to worry about MP unless your either A) Running exceptionally low Piety and keeping your GCD rolling the whole time in a fight with very little/no downtime (for AST this can be a problem) B) Your party is actually bad and you have to continuously raise people/solo heal, or C) You're over-healing excessively. You would have to completely redesign Savage and how Healers work in this game in order to balance Healers only healing. Additionally, I genuinely do not understand why Healers needing to do damage is such a problem to people? You have to kill mobs in the overworld right? You have to kill enemies in solo-content right? That applies raids, savage raids, ultimate content, trials, extreme trials, PoTD, HoH etc, period.

2. Removing a DPS check in a savage encounter makes the fight DRAMATICALLY easier. If there's no soft/hard enrage and the same mechanics keep repeating themselves infinitely, the only challenge is getting through the mechanics with at LEAST a tank and any caster with MP so they can raise the entire party and keep going. If that were the case, once you've learned the mechanics you don't even need to execute, just don't wipe and you'll probably clear. A DPS check forces players to play well enough to clear the fight, optimize their damage when possible, and not make mistakes. If you take that away, you might as well just delete savage tbh, you've lost a huge percent of the challenge. If you can't make a DPS check with your party on a clean run, your party needs to get better, simple as that... Or just tell the healers that aren't DPSing start pressing those two-three buttons on their hotbars, . Savage isn't for everyone, don't make it accessible for those that want to put in 0 effort (arguably that can already be done in certain fights). More content, especially Normal Mode raids, should have DPS checks, not less.

OP is more than likely trolling but I thought I'd throw my hat into the ring as well. I'm tired of hearing people tell me that healer DPS isn't required and shouldn't be done, in Duty Finder.

Never said that healers should not dps its just not something fight are designed around. That fact that its needed comes from factors outside of design..

[Jaelommiss]

FFlogs shiva savage 10th percentile kill duration 13:57 dps 86,363. What does your math say about that hmm??

On the Damage Done tab FFLogs only counts damage done to the boss. Swap to Damage Taken by enemies and you'll see numbers around 91k for 840 sec kills.

[Aurida]

Never said that healers should not dps its just not something fight are designed around. That fact that its needed comes from factors outside of design..

The two statements 'fights aren't balanced around healer DPS and 'fights are mathematically impossible to clear without healer DPS' are inconsistent with each other. The problem we're having with this argument is that the latter is something that's been thoroughly mathematically proven in every Savage fight in the last four years and the former is something that Yoshi P scribbled on a napkin six years ago and people are taking it as gospel.

If healers don't DPS, you cannot clear the fight. Hence, fights are balanced around healer DPS.

[AdamFyi]

FFlogs shiva savage 10th percentile kill duration 13:57 dps 86,363. What does your math say about that hmm??

I know this is a troll thread, but wanted to pop in to clarify that the reason for the discrepancy is because DPS from the adds phase is completely ignored for rankings. There’s a nifty textbox on top of the tables that tell you this too.