Rebalance Savage damage to not require healer dps

[KageTokage]

Healer DPS has never ever been taken into account in enrage timer, certified several time by Yoshida himself.

I'm assuming they're balancing around BiS gear or something if that's the case, because E8S was tight in the first few weeks even with no deaths and the healers going all out.

[Liam_Harper]

This is exactly why they should stop making things more and more accessible. No matter how much easier you make things, people who don't want to put in effort will continue to complain it's too hard until it's just handed to them :l

As a healer main, no.

Savage is not balanced with healer dps in mind. Yoshi has stated this in the past Savage is not balanced around healer dps, Healers dps as bonus and because of down time.

The math has been done on this over and over. E8S has a 90725 raid dps requirement. Even with all tanks and dps at 95th percentile, you won't make it with 0 dps healers. Yoshi can say whatever he likes. It's just fact.

[Avidria]

That's not a matter of choice.
Healer DPS has never ever been taken into account in enrage timer, certified several time by Yoshida himself.
As for asking the removal of enrage in savage to make it be like normal, I have nothing more in mind than "lol" ?

Does anyone have a link to this? I genuinely thought the opposite was true, but I haven't really done savage to any kind of serious degree since HW
I tbh hate healer design in this game because I'd rather spend the majority of my time as a healer actually healing, but the fights seriously don't seem to be designed for that. Which is why I don't heal in any serious content.

[MikkoAkure]

As of right now in savage content, the whole thing is teamwork. Tanks use cool downs on tank busters to limit healing, DPS avoid mechanics while DPSing and shouldn’t need healing outside AoE. For healers, that means everyone else is trying their best to avoid putting undue pressure on you. If you aren’t spending the extra time they’re giving you helping to DPS, you’re letting everyone else in your team down.

[Nedkel]

If healers have time to dps in savage raid, then that only means their team know the fight from tip to toe and are playing with a really good team.

Sadly the world is not that perfect and i often seen people dying, taking unnecessary damage and even wiping before the enrage hit, pushing a immense pressure on healers. If only-heal healers cant save those runs from failing, imagine what would happen if they were required to heal 100% uptime by raid design... Most of the players who play savage with random people wouldnt even be able to finish it once, progression runs would have been pointless since healers are given so much responsibility in raids that majority wouldnt even be able to fit into the role.

You would basically make the game a little more engaging to play for top level healers in top notch statics, and completely destroy the experience of everyone outside of that.

No thanks, if you feel like you want some challenge you should try out pugging those raids, i guarantee you that your role will be tenfold more engaging.

[Risvertasashi]

Does anyone have a link to this? I genuinely thought the opposite was true, but I haven't really done savage to any kind of serious degree since HW
I tbh hate healer design in this game because I'd rather spend the majority of my time as a healer actually healing, but the fights seriously don't seem to be designed for that. Which is why I don't heal in any serious content.

Because it was never said that strongly. They said they didn't take healer DPS into account as part of their general encounter design. They never certified it was all encounters.

This was also a very, very long time ago and the never said they would never factor in healer DPS. Before Cleric Stance was removed, too.

Given how savage has been tuned in both Stormblood and Shadowbringers, I think it's near certain they do factor in healer DPS. The timings are just too tight, to make it without healer DPS you'd need to be overgeared by a healthy amount and have DPS/tanks that are really on their A game.

The only way you'll get confirmation, however, is if you convince someone to ask in an interview, and if Yoshi or another answering dev isn't cagey about answering. Good luck.

[Liam_Harper]

If healers have time to dps in savage raid, then that only means their team know the fight from tip to toe and are playing with a really good team.

That just isn't true. For E8S on the website that shall not be named, even at absolute minimum percentile, bottom 1% of the barrel, messy run, WhM has 3k dps and AST 4.7k.
At 10th percentile, so the bottom 10% of the barrel, all healers manage over 6k.

Again, it's just fact. Dps as a healer isn't that hard.

[Melichoir]

That's not a matter of choice.
Healer DPS has never ever been taken into account in enrage timer, certified several time by Yoshida himself.
As for asking the removal of enrage in savage to make it be like normal, I have nothing more in mind than "lol" ?

Maybe this is anecdotal, but you need something around 81k dps party wide to beat enrage in e5s. That's not hard to hit in geared groups (or even semi geared groups currently), but when it first came out, you would most likely not be able to hit that raid dps if healers did 0 dps themselves. Even the best geared most adept groups would struggle to meet this check with 0 healer dps.

While I dont think they include healers in the calculations for every encounter, I think its either over simplifying what YoshiP said, if not misstating it to say that healer dps is not included. Encounter design for Savage clearly takes into account healer dps, especially since decently geared and adept healers can do 5-7k dps apiece.

That beign said, yes, devs should include healer dps into encounter design. As long as the classes can deal decent damage, then they need to be factored in. If you cant heal and dps, then thats a you problem because there's plenty of healers who can do this. If your group is struggling to beat enrages, then work on improving yourself. That simple.

[Nedkel]

That just isn't true. For E8S on the website that shall not be named, even at absolute minimum percentile, bottom 1% of the barrel, messy run, WhM has 3k dps and AST 4.7k.
At 10th percentile, so the bottom 10% of the barrel, all healers manage over 6k.
Again, it's just fact. Dps as a healer isn't that hard.

The statistic counts only successful runs, and we dont really have an idea how many out there failed the raid because healer had to heal and resurect over dpsing.
Also 10% percentile healers on E8S deals higher dps than 90% on normal, which means it is required from healers to dps.

Savage raids are already taxing on healers and if you increase the difficulty you are throwing pugs and randoms out of the bath tub. Its not going to happen.
Worse teams requires much higher healing, if you go into rank runs and check out best teams you will see healer healing at 1-10% and their dps sitting at 80-100%.

This is a mechanic of healing role, the better team you have the less healing they need, idk what is not true in this statement?

[galbsadi]

The only way for healers to not need to dps is for them to change how the encounter goes a.k.a non-scripted.

That's not entirely true.

There are things that could be done to make it less relevant without making it a scripting issue.

Example: limit the number of times a player can be resurrected in savage content.