Cinder drift critique: top heavy mechanics are the wrong way to go *minor spoliers*

[XenociderOmega]

Normal was stupid ez
Phase 2 was so easy and went by so fast that I barely remember it

[TheMightyMollusk]

It reminded me of Tsukuyomi at launch. It's not too complicated, but you have to actually wake up and pay attention to see what's going on.

It also reminded me of Tsukuyomi in that three people immediately dropped after one wipe because how dare people not have the mechanics memorized on launch day.

[Noitems]

I haven’t had a chance to do normal or EX for Ruby Weapon, but what exactly is the problem with level 80 content (i.e., endgame content) requiring some semblance of competency from those attempting it? I think the endgame needs more challenging content that aren’t Extremes or Savage—there’s a huge gap between them and the other endgame content (alliance raids, normal mode raids, “expert” dungeons), and it could stand to be bridged a little bit.

I’d rather have more punishing mechanics as opposed to free-falling for 2 minutes dodging balls that don’t even kill you.

Absolutely agree. To look back at a point where Ultimate didn't exist and Savage was the peak, Extreme was meant to be your proper challenge and the lead in to Savage. That difficulty was there to make you think and give you a rush when you're handling mechanics/keeping up dps.

If we're being so picky as to complain about a game slapping your wrist for failing a dps check mainly due to mechs not being handled right, then that gives off the impression we don't like being challenged. That we are willing to wade in the god awful pool of Hades normal where the fight is a spectacle but is mechanically extremely boring.

The only issue I'll have with this Trial post EX clear is the amount of people who will abandon it in Trials rou after a single wipe because they don't consider it a time investment. It's like Tsukuyomi normal all over again EDIT: Happy someone else mentioned Tsuku because when I was writing this post that thing came up LMAO.

[Vaer]

It's going to play out the exact same way every single time because of top heavy mechanics. Tanks must do X, healers must do Y, damage dealers must not derp after both. Failure of any of the above inside some silly short enrage timer window will result in wipe and do it again. And it doesn't matter after that what class, what role, what level of knowing your job comes into the fight if you have "assignments" instead of "gameplay"

What you're describing are coordination checks, and it is testing how well the group works together. Double stack markers is a basic form of this. As you go up in difficulty they get more complex and stringent.

If you remove those and don't have a decent enrage you just end up with mostly telegraph dodge fests where you can just throw bodies at it until you win. (i.e Byakko, most alliance raid bosses after you kill A/B/C adds if they have any)

I found the second phase boring (even in EX), mostly because it just seemed disjointed and random. Like it didn't have any flow. It's like someone took a bunch of stuff and just glued them together sideways.

[Duskane]

i dont know how anyone can enjoy byakko outside of his cool voice
its such a boring fight

[Buchan88]

My personal issue is that Ruby Extreme is ilvl 470. That is the same requirement for svg Eden. Svg Eden I understand that is raid tier content. Ex primals however have been more gear for the mid tier player. I work 6 days a week so getting into a raid static is not possible with my schedule. I enjoy doing ex primals and they released a new ex primal that requires me to have at least cleared Eden svg 1. Yea I am sure it isn't too bad I raided in stormblood and heavensward. But making it a requirement to have a full set of i470 gear just to do a new primal is a bit extreme and I feel is going to separate players between raiders and casual. When that happens ill probably quite because I don't enjoy casual play and can not currently raid atm. This also makes crafted gear and the 24 man raid gear pretty much useless. (previous patch gear wise) Why didn't they make it ilvl 465. That makes more sense and means more ppl can get into it. On top of that so many clear parties and learning parties are gonna require that ilvl. I enjoy the fight and im really upset that I can not just jump in and learn it because they decided to make it a ridiculous ilvl. If they want to release new content at the current highest ilvl that's fine but then they need to increase the options for that gear. Tome gear and raid gear is WAY too limited. Allow crafted gear to go to max ilvl near the end of the patch. Allow 24 man raid gear to be upgraded to max ilvl AT THE END OF THE PATCH. This way all players can enjoy the new ex primal content without being required to raid. Also half my tome gear doesn't have crit which is what I stack. That's why I want more options.

[AkaeiNox]

The neo-ishguardian gears are ilvl 480 if you have a lot of money to buy it from the Market Board. No need for Eden Savage.
You can mix and match them with upgraded deepshadow gears.

[Schan]

There is only so much you can do to "demonstrate mastery" after commiting the rotation to your muscle memory. IMO true mastery of a job comes from mixing the rotation to the mechanics. At least from a DRG's point of view. A good understanding of your job comes not just from executing your rotation well but when and how to tweak it depending on the mechanics that are thrown at you.

I'm sorry that you feel that fighs that rely more on positioning are not the way to go. i personally enjoy the balance of both and as melee part of the fun is figuring out how to stick to the boss despite what it throws at you. For me there is a degree of fun in that. It's almost as fun as (once a blue mooon) when I get that random PUG team that will not give up and you gradually watch everyone getting things right until you get that clear.

With that said I like Byakko's fight but I'm a biased DRG who loves droping from the skies at mach 5 speed.

edit: i liked the fight. i'm glad the devs are gradually moving from the "pay attention to that 1 mechanic in the entire fight that will wipe you if you fail" formula they used at the begining of the expansion. boy was that boring...

[TheMightyMollusk]

Phantasmagoria is uncapped now, and upgrade tokens can be bought from Clan Nutsy or with coins from the Copied Factory (weapon upgrades can only be bought with coins), so 470 isn't that hard, even without accounting for crafted gear or Eden's Verse.

[Sasarayu]

I haven't done this fight yet (and maybe I won't since I have no ambition to do any PvE in FFXIV anymore) but what I personally find the most annoying is the length and linearity of the encounters with insta wipe mechanics coming late in the fight after long sequences of just visually impressive tediousness and even boss immune transitions or narrative intermissions with very boring adds and mechanics.

SE has not ever mastered the art of cyclic PvE design well. A set script just starting over is still linear but if you have signature mechanics constantly going out at a faster pace with some overlaps you have the base model for the cyclic encounter (which Blizzard are experts at btw). What I find with a cyclic design as opposed to a linear script is that it keeps me much more entertained.

In FFXIV I die a lot because I lose focus when mechanics are boring. I daydream and suddenly realize I'm positioned wrong for the insta wipe mechanic.

Imo ShB PvE so far feels more rigid and stiff than ever and judging from this thread and what the OP claims it hasn't gotten better as of this patch. A matter of taste I guess but I just can't appreciate it.