Thank you Yoshi for your stance on DPS meters

[VenKitsune]

Its not the tools themselves that are toxic, its just the kind of people that use them and use them as a tool for harassment. SE knows this, but say it in a roundabout way because even those toxic players, at the end of the day, are still their customers.

[DevilsDontFly]

Maybe a Damage report at the end of the Dungeon/Trial/Raid just like in Frontlines would suffice?

Honestly I wish that was a thing, much like how it's done in Neverwinter. It's not distracting because you'd only have access to that info at the end of the duty and if you cleared it. A DPS meter is not only something for you to have an idea of what fellow dps are doing, but also an idea of how the healers are healing.

[xxvaynxx]

You do realize those players can just... make their own parties, yes? If there were a ton of them, they'd likely have an even larger pool of players than those demanding 80%. And once again, this already happens. If a party lists "skip Black Smokers" and the group isn't able to because they have a 10k SAM. That person will likely be kicked except no one will say why.

I've pugged this whole tier and parsed 80 to 99 on several different jobs. It's very doable even in a non-optimized group. Bear in mind, plenty of groups won't have such requirements. As for how I'd feel, well... I wouldn't be all that bothered. I'd make my own if needs be. As for Samurai being unpopular. That was partly due to SE's poor design choices and how FFlogs used to rank. Samurai was woefully undertuned and had to compete against piercing—a battle it'd never win because what Bard or Machinist would join a party without a Dragoon? This is no longer the case and you see practically every job in PF these days. Making parsers public wouldn't change that. In fact, it may make things better as more people would understand how rDPS works.



No. They simply want to maintain the illusion of a hugbox. Perhaps I'd be proven wrong but I firmly believe that outside the initial month or two, the community would settle right back down to how it is now provided SE did proper due diligence. The actual toxic players would get suspended or banned while everyone else just goes about their business. The issue is that requires work they don't want to deal with.

You do realize "just make your own party" doesn't sovle the problem,yes?
Now I can't say how bad people will be but even now.
Even people that don't even pull high numbers themselves don't join parties that are in their skill range.
You underestimate how much people wanna get carried.


And I know why samurai couldn't get in parties. I was just using it as an example on what it would possibly feel like to be excluded from a lot of content.
Also you hide your parses or using an alt, so I can't see if you're telling the truth on your "99 on different jobs" or just talking out of your a**, but just because YOU can get lucky with pugs and get a decent percentile doesn't mean others can.

Ether way though we're not gonna agree, all I can say is look at it from the PoV of a lesser skilled player.
And I think you heavily underestimate how much people will be A**holes and ask for very high expectations if the general population had access to a parse.
You can preach report but you really think that's gonna scare people?

[Sated]

Corrupt-a-wish would be like: They add a personal damage report so players can review their own progress, but also remove the ability to see (or I guess accurately quantify) other players' damage so it cannot be compared except through mutual discussions with other players offline.

[QT_Melon]

You can already do something to a degree by using a calculator (whether online like the the Stone Sea Sky one) and using one of those dummies with Stone Sea Sky.

It's just a bit of algebra if done manually

But people want to immediately dismiss even using said tool as at least some basic way to get some feedback of improvement.

I'm NOT saying it wouldn't be nice to have one in game like ACT. I'm simply saying there ARE tools you can use to get a rough idea. It's not just about beating said dummy, if you know the amount of time you're allotted to do it, when you beat it in how much time, or didn't beat it and what percentage you were at from that time frame.

[ForteNightshade]

You do realize "just make your own party" doesn't sovle the problem,yes?
Now I can't say how bad people will be but even now.
Even people that don't even pull high numbers themselves don't join parties that are in their skill range.
You underestimate how much people wanna get carried.


And I know why samurai couldn't get in parties. I was just using it as an example on what it would possibly feel like to be excluded from a lot of content.
Also you hide your parses or using an alt, so I can't see if you're telling the truth on your "99 on different jobs" or just talking out of your a**, but just because YOU can get lucky with pugs and get a decent percentile doesn't mean others can.

Ether way though we're not gonna agree, all I can say is look at it from the PoV of a lesser skilled player.
And I think you heavily underestimate how much people will be A**holes and ask for very high expectations if the general population had access to a parse.
You can preach report but you really think that's gonna scare people?

You're moving the goal posts with that last statement. Your previous post implied people wouldn't be able to find groups since everyone would put high standards on their PFs. Now it's they want be able to get carried. Why should any of us care? I have zero sympathy for someone who couldn't care less about seven other people's time. Unfortunately, it's those people SE protects by refusing to implement a parse themselves.

Please don't mis-quote. I said between 80-99 not that I 99s across the board. And if I can achieve that with random groups all of varying skill levels, there's no stopping anyone else. You think I haven't died to other people's mistake? I just keep at it and practiced those jobs. Some are easier to do well on than others but if the party is decent, you'll do fine. As for posting on an alt. I have my reasons but look up Cassandra if you're curious.

If you're a lesser skilled player. Why are you joining a PF labelled 80%, "skip Black Smokers" and etc? Those parties have a specific goal in mind and you don't meet the requirement. Joining that party anyway is, quite frankly, incredibly rude.

[xxvaynxx]

You're moving the goal posts with that last statement. Your previous post implied people wouldn't be able to find groups since everyone would put high standards on their PFs. Now it's they want be able to get carried. Why should any of us care? I have zero sympathy for someone who couldn't care less about seven other people's time. Unfortunately, it's those people SE protects by refusing to implement a parse themselves.

Please don't mis-quote. I said between 80-99 not that I 99s across the board. And if I can achieve that with random groups all of varying skill levels, there's no stopping anyone else. You think I haven't died to other people's mistake? I just keep at it and practiced those jobs. Some are easier to do well on than others but if the party is decent, you'll do fine. As for posting on an alt. I have my reasons but look up Cassandra if you're curious.

If you're a lesser skilled player. Why are you joining a PF labelled 80%, "skip Black Smokers" and etc? Those parties have a specific goal in mind and you don't meet the requirement. Joining that party anyway is, quite frankly, incredibly rude.

You're miss understanding when I mentioned the carrying thing.
I said that as in if someone were to make a party and their not as good. Even people that are low blues wouldn't join because people like to get carried.

I get I'm looking at the worst possible scenario on how people would act with a offical parse but just seeing how people are in the NA community I don't trust people to play nice and clearly Yoshi-P doesn't either.
I seen how nasty people are when it comes to parses.

[linay]

No. They simply want to maintain the illusion of a hugbox. Perhaps I'd be proven wrong but I firmly believe that outside the initial month or two, the community would settle right back down to how it is now provided SE did proper due diligence. The actual toxic players would get suspended or banned while everyone else just goes about their business. The issue is that requires work they don't want to deal with.

I guess we'll never know, although the last sentence is probably true.

[hasana]

Not true at all. WoW dungeon/raid finder content people don't care as long as it gets done; if anything there's people who should get kicked but dont. In PUG or harder content then yes dps is an issue and people should be pulling their weight.



That's nonsense. I'd like to know what countries these are.

Using WoW as an example they have a monitoring program called Warden that's been in the game for as long as the game had been out. Several imports have much more intrusive anti-cheat systems and they are perfectly legal, unfortunately.

Third party parsers have been given a wink and a nod by him so they are allowed by the back door. It's unfair on people who dont use them and stick to the EULA.

I had a poor sprout rogue in wow who got vote kicked in RFC for low dps because poor guy couldn't do anything with the 4 of us full heirloom melting mobs..

WoW is from NA/FFXIV from JP your laws =/= their laws.

And players who care about parsers will most likely use it so they won't stick with the eula and if they do it will be mostly because it's kinda annoying to setup.
If we put the SE stance on Third Party Tools away for a moment it's like saying it's unfair for people who don't use Recount/Skada/Details.

[TheSpooks]

Simple solution for "toxicity" in endgame content such as Ex/Savave/Ultimate would be SE themselves Gating specific content (WITH STRICT RESTRICTIONS) instead of having the player base doing it themselves. How is it fair for players who are legitimately trying to complete content efficiently, are being held back by someone who "just wants to play". Team Cooperation and Individually pulling your own weight is required in this content. NO ONE is entitled to any clear for any content. On the other hand however, anyone can get better to clear said content. If you know the type of people who are in the raid scene and you don't want to interact with that group of people. Simply don't do the content. Everyone else in thay content is on the same page, why can't you?