How About a Little Love for Mages, Please

[OriginalHungerforce]

There appears to be a total of three... maybe three and a half ... that have the brain capacity to understand what we're trying to explain.

[akisato]

you guys are argueing about argueing when the the op is talking about scaleing spell dmg with the lvl of the weapon you guys are talking about materia and bonus stats.

but we dont use our weapons to cast. all kidding aside what you guys don't get is that it is a formulaic difference. Lets say the formula for mage damage was int times weapon damage times spell power minus mnd then of course equiping a weapon with low weapon damage would have a huge effect on your damage but if the formula was int times spell power minus mnd then it would not matter what the weapon damage or level was on the weapon it is not a factor in the damage you do.

[Chardrizard]

Lol i am so in this new system original force and OP trying to explain, pls implement it devs.

Because they have not a single idea how it would caused to the game in general, because people with gimp equips will be far away compare to the people with proper gears and will never ever gets invites anymore with this scale system and materia because gears will be > skills at this rate. Imagine what will happens to people without brain and gears hahaha


/elitist on

[Ryans]

I got to page 6 before finally stopping.

For the OP: Why are you playing a game that values, or attempts to value, player skill > gear? (For magic classes in particular)

I understand that you think a mage's damage should be affected more by a weapon the higher that's weapon level is, but the developers believe that mages' damage should come from being a mage first and then factor in what gear you have. This is different from how they view melee classes, where their base damage comes from their weapon selection.

Next question to the OP: If you disagree with how the developers view the core mechanics of the game (IE how mages damage should be calculated) why are you playing the game?

Another issue that I didn't see brought up in the 6 pages I read is why the damage is tested on level 50 monsters using a level 1 weapon versus a level 50 weapon. The way mages' base damage is calculated is determined by their level compared to the monster they are fighting. Of course a level 50 fighting a level 50 is going to have minimal resists and therefore, approximately the same damage. Go fight Ifrit with a level 1 weapon (with materia) 10 times and then again with an appropriate higher end weapon (presumably Lightning Brand or Electrum with materia) 10 times and show the parses.

If you do not get less resists and higher dps with the higher weapon consistently, then yes mage weapons are broken. For arguments sake, I assume you are going to say that your point is that materia shouldn't be factored into the base damage on weapons, but fact of the matter is that any level 1 weapon is going to how lower stats than any level 41+ weapon simply based on possible materia choices.

With that in mind, your quarrel should be with how potent the base stats of weapons are (IE how much +int/m.acc they have) compared to how strong a weapon can be with double materia. I believe that your problems would be alleviated if U/U gear was actually pertinent to the game and not all about materia.

[Charismatic]

ITT: Assuming Assumptions

Yeah, okay.
Nothing you posted has any basis in fact, we're just running around like chickens with our heads cut off at this point... and nothing that SE has done in the past, especially anything to do with XI, has any relevance here. The current director of this game has nothing to do with XI.
And are we even going to pretend that Yoshida hasn't already done crazier things than this with the game in the period of time he's been in charge?

I'm not going to automatically assume he'd incorrectly implement the suggestion with nothing to go on but the stuff I've pulled outta my ass. And no, the level scaling of the spells themselves has jack shit to do with the actual calculation of base magic damage just like melee WS also scale with level but the actual base damage of the WEAPON is also a factor in the WS damage. Who is to say that it cannot be the same for magic? Would they have to retool everything to make this work? Of course, but that is the damn point.
Does that mean it'll be a nerf across the board to everyone aside from the best of the best? No, why would it..? Because you said so?


And maybe 1h weapons would lose their utility in many party situations, but their main benefit is supposed to be the use of a shield. If a shield isn't important enough to use on a mage, thats a whole other problem that should be addressed separately.

[Coombah]

Other than the lack of content this is my greatest concern for the future of the game. Stats mean nothing, it should be imposable to defeat ifrit when the tank is wearing a reindeer outfit and the mages as dps are using weathered scepters.

If i have 250 str and 500 att and my friend has 255 str and 505 att he should do more dmg than me.

Give the <3 SE!

[AmyNeudaiz]

Wow this thread exploded while I was gone. Okay, one thing I'd like to add before I go on about my point of view on the matter. If you say U/U weapons are pointless then I'd ask you to try using them. The Twin Adder 2-handed Thm staff is great for getting criticals and so is the Moogle Staff (though I agree Ifrit's is bad). I have both and I prefer them over a lightning brand with double Tier III materia.

Anyways, I'll try to keep this short because I really think long posts aren't very constructive as they have a tendency to delude the main point.

The fact of the matter is that regardless of the complaint that the OP makes about base damage being laughable, the real damage comes from criticals, how much more damage your criticals do, how few times you get resisted and NOT base damage. Why do you want DoM to be just like DoW? Seriously? Because I don't. I enjoy that my damage doesn't only come from my weapon.

[Coglin]

lvl 1 and 1300 posts, i choose not to pay any attention to you. give me Amy back at least she plays the game.

Yeah I don't play the game at all, damn glad you told me I wouldn't have known otherwise, guess I'll go back to rotting on my THM that I don't play.

Sorry, but you go out of your way to hide who you are. Your post are often uninformed or uneducated to the class. We have no real reason to believe you have any experience to validate anything you say.

[GreyJorildyn]

I agree with the OP 100%. Mages weapons should have a "spell damage" stat on them that is taken into consideration when casting spells and calculating their damage. It is utterly ridiculous that a level 50 can output the same dmg with a level 1 weapon as a level 50. It completely bastardizes the armory system, reducing the weapon to little more than a means for switching classes. If you cannot see this then you need to pull your head out of the sand and/or experiece mmos other than Final Fantasy XI/XIV.

Upgrading your weapon should be no different than upgrading all your other slots of gear. Why argue the weapon shouldn't be upgraded? Are you mental? Spell damage/power should be a critical stat to the mage arsenal and give them a reason to upgrade other than for the ability to put better materia on and to get gimmicks like "lightning magic potency+20" (whatever THAT means). Those same that argue the reason to use a lightning brand is to get that special stat and slot int+20 instead of INT+2 might also consider that you could just as easily put potency increases on a blank weapon for the same effect. Thus your argument loses credibility.

Fact of the matter is if you think the current system is acceptable in a modern mmo world, you need to reanalyze your thought process. It is unfair to think melee should upgrade every slot to be end game viable but mages should get a pass on upgrading their weapon because you can't see past the FF fanboy crap. SE is in the wrong on this one and it ought to be corrected. Furthermore whoever said opening up the game to such a concept would actually limit your options is very short-sighted. Adding something like this in would give SE the ability to create significant distinction between 1h and 2h'd versions of mage class weapons (outside of materia options), thus giving you much greater choice down the line.

[Dreadnought]

/falls back to original my reply.

Damage is not black and white.

but the damage your talking about is more like light grey vs lighter grey

damage isnt black and what but there isnt enough of a difference.

the poster above made the best point of all, Ifrit should not be beatable by people with weathered weapons and vanity gear.
damage shouldnt be that black and white but your gear sure as hell should have a much larger impact on your output.
the output your gear gives you is also a great incentive to get that gear.
my buddy started playing a few weeks ago (Mooshywooshy) and he only plays in gear he thinks looks good (i have pics) because he noticed there isnt much of a noticeable impact from gear enough for him to care (which is the opposite of how he felt about gear in FFXI and other MMOs)