Do you think there is a reason Garleans can't use magic?

[Linadae]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in 1.0 Didn't Nial van Darnus regularly rant about being a direct descendant of Allagans? If so, I have a bit of a theory, the Garleans of present day were born from the survivors of the Allag Empire. It would explain why the Garleans kept being driven out of every place they settled. After all, the White and Black mages went through the same thing during/after the calamity they brought about. Even to this day White magicks and Black magicks are considered illegal (except in certain circumstances in Gridania).

And as we've learned from both the RDM class quests, AND in Shadowbringers, aether goes absolutely mental, an uncontrolled force, unbalanced, would that not have an effect on people near the center? After all, Aether is exceedingly connected to life itself. Wouldn't it becoming unbalanced cause mutations in people? Mutations perhaps like severing the ability to manipulate aether. Or a third eye? And what few Allagan survivors likely would have been fairly close to the Crystal tower that had become the center of their empire, thus closer than other races to the epicenter of the Calamity.

[Tracewood]

I think the Garleans are tools for Ascians, surpress their ability to use aether and keep telling them they're the superior race with unrivaled tech (which I believe that derided from late Allagan ingenuity) that needs to rule the "savages" that can use magic. The Garleans might have been used to control and conquer the masses all the while the Ascians would get the beastmen to summon primals (and a few willing participants) and keep the forces fighting amongst themselves.

Crackpot assumption: Those Garlean eyes are like Chekov's Gun... it has significance, but we don't know what it is. Aether suppression? Mini Sabik Hearts making them ticking time bombs? Ascians created the empire to further their own goals, and at some point they will outlive their usefulness and that's when we'll know the real secret about those jewels.

[Jandor]

The Garleans lack of magical ability isn't generally that big a deal, the average Eorzean can't really use magic in any meaningful capacity either.

Sure, theoretically Eorzeans can learn how to do it, but most don't really seem to bother. Even if they do try and learn, it's no guarantee that they'll actually be any good at it.

We run in very magically proficient circles and therefore the Garlean lack of magic looks like a ridiculously over the top handicap, but compare the average Eorzean to the average Garlean and frankly, the Garleans seem to win out.

[QT_Melon]

I'm sorry but it's a VERY interesting handicap. That's what the topic is mostly about - not whether or not "it's a big deal".

Not being good at it is not the same as not being able to do it all.

Ex. There's a difference between someone without the capability to draw well, vs someone who physically cannot draw at all.

[Nightsword]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in 1.0 Didn't Nial van Darnus regularly rant about being a direct descendant of Allagans? If so, I have a bit of a theory, the Garleans of present day were born from the survivors of the Allag Empire. It would explain why the Garleans kept being driven out of every place they settled. After all, the White and Black mages went through the same thing during/after the calamity they brought about. Even to this day White magicks and Black magicks are considered illegal (except in certain circumstances in Gridania).

And as we've learned from both the RDM class quests, AND in Shadowbringers, aether goes absolutely mental, an uncontrolled force, unbalanced, would that not have an effect on people near the center? After all, Aether is exceedingly connected to life itself. Wouldn't it becoming unbalanced cause mutations in people? Mutations perhaps like severing the ability to manipulate aether. Or a third eye? And what few Allagan survivors likely would have been fairly close to the Crystal tower that had become the center of their empire, thus closer than other races to the epicenter of the Calamity.

Garleans are direct descendants of the people of the Clockwork City of Goug. Which in turn could have been descendants of the Allag, but given the number of Allag NPC's and bosses we've dealt with in game, they have all lacked the third eye. As such I'm of the thought that the 3rd eye came about during the time Goug rather than Allag and has to with the interaction of that mechina.

[Jandor]

I'm sorry but it's a VERY interesting handicap. That's what the topic is mostly about - not whether or not "it's a big deal".

The topic is 'do you think there is a reason Garleans can't use magic?'

People have been discussing if they were created, and if so by who and what for. I didn't say it's not an interesting handicap, if anything it's a very interesting factor in who created them, and when, and what for.

Created by Allagans? Impressive physically capable soldiers, allagan tech more than compensates for lack of magic.

Created by Ascians? Well the pathetic magical abilities of the new races are hardly a big loss.

Created as punishment for something after a calamity? Well that's a big deal, they're not going to do well in a low-tech era.

Maybe they created themselves at the height of their society, when cultural norms favoured tech and magic was seen as barbaric?

Not being good at it is not the same as not being able to do it all.

Ex. There's a difference between someone without the capability to draw well, vs someone who physically cannot draw at all.

It's more like not being able to draw with a pencil on paper vs. being perfectly able to use a tablet and photoshop. They can't do the "natural" version at all, but give them some tech and they're away.

[MikkoAkure]

The Garleans lack of magical ability isn't generally that big a deal, the average Eorzean can't really use magic in any meaningful capacity either.

Sure, theoretically Eorzeans can learn how to do it, but most don't really seem to bother. Even if they do try and learn, it's no guarantee that they'll actually be any good at it.

We run in very magically proficient circles and therefore the Garlean lack of magic looks like a ridiculously over the top handicap, but compare the average Eorzean to the average Garlean and frankly, the Garleans seem to win out.

Except Eorzeans DO use magic on a day-to-day basis. There's the obvious ones like people using crystals for crafting and aetherytes for traveling. Even though most people who aren't the WoL can't travel with the aetherytes repeatedly over great distances, the lore book says that all settlements are built around them. And it's been awhile so I can't remember all the details clearly, but I thought I remember the ALC storyline telling us that all Eorzeans can and do manipulate aether for mundane things like lifting heavy objects. That would explain why we can wield such gigantic weapons and go head-to-head with giants, even if we weren't the WoL. In addition to that, all DoW abilities also are said to be done by manipulating aether. Not everything to do with aether is "magecraft".

In-game, the Garleans' lack of aether manipulation is treated as a major disadvantage. It would be one thing if it was just "Oh, they can't be mages." but it's not treated that way. The reason the Garleans are located where they are now is because every race and tribe from across Ilsabard kicked them across the continent and unless every one of them had an army of mages, it would make more sense if the deciding factor in the fights against the early Garleans was the fact that the people they were fighting augmented their fighting ability with aether. It would also explain why the Garleans are so big, they have to be large and strong in a world where every living being in the world can manipulate aether but they can't.

[QT_Melon]

The topic is 'do you think there is a reason Garleans can't use magic?'

People have been discussing if they were created, and if so by who and what for. I didn't say it's not an interesting handicap, if anything it's a very interesting factor in who created them, and when, and what for.

Created by Allagans? Impressive physically capable soldiers, allagan tech more than compensates for lack of magic.

Created by Ascians? Well the pathetic magical abilities of the new races are hardly a big loss.

Created as punishment for something after a calamity? Well that's a big deal, they're not going to do well in a low-tech era.

Maybe they created themselves at the height of their society, when cultural norms favoured tech and magic was seen as barbaric?



It's more like not being able to draw with a pencil on paper vs. being perfectly able to use a tablet and photoshop. They can't do the "natural" version at all, but give them some tech and they're away.

Yes, that's the literal subject line. Meaning it's nothing to really do with whether or not "it's a big deal" considering the lengthy explanations and EXPANSIONS dedicated to the craft in this world.

For the analogy.
You have to actually know how to draw to do it electronically with tools as well (therefore bunk comparison unfortunately). Medium makes no difference. It's more like them observing others drawing and having Machine learning do it on their behalf. Where it can do things similar but still can't perform certain feats an artist can, but it can do things that may come off as "uncanny valley" when it does perform certain feats eerily similar.

A photograph is not the same as a Painted Portrait. One can learn to take a photograph in an artistic way :P

But that's where I'm saying why the handicap is interesting and felt the hand waiving wasn't necessary as to "how big of a deal it was" when it came to the Garleans.

[Jandor]

Except Eorzeans DO use magic on a day-to-day basis. There's the obvious ones like people using crystals for crafting and aetherytes for traveling. Even though most people who aren't the WoL can't travel with the aetherytes repeatedly over great distances, the lore book says that all settlements are built around them. And it's been awhile so I can't remember all the details clearly, but I thought I remember the ALC storyline telling us that all Eorzeans can and do manipulate aether for mundane things like lifting heavy objects. That would explain why we can wield such gigantic weapons and go head-to-head with giants, even if we weren't the WoL. In addition to that, all DoW abilities also are said to be done by manipulating aether. Not everything to do with aether is "magecraft".

I'm not sure crystals for crafting counts to be honest, we typically harvest crystals, I don't really see why that would be beyond the Garleans. They have little ability to manipulate aether but they're not allergic to it or anything.

In-game, the Garleans' lack of aether manipulation is treated as a major disadvantage. It would be one thing if it was just "Oh, they can't be mages." but it's not treated that way. The reason the Garleans are located where they are now is because every race and tribe from across Ilsabard kicked them across the continent and unless every one of them had an army of mages, it would make more sense if the deciding factor in the fights against the early Garleans was the fact that the people they were fighting augmented their fighting ability with aether. It would also explain why the Garleans are so big, they have to be large and strong in a world where every living being in the world can manipulate aether but they can't.

But it's not though, not really, I can't remember a single instance of someone on our side thinking dealing with the Garleans will be easy because they can't cast magic.
It's treated as if it was a major disadvantage because once upon a time it was. It's not now though, the Alliance doesn't meet with the Emperor and be all "lol dude we gunna streamroll your army because we have thaumaturges and arcanists."
A focus on technology has made the Garleans just as strong, if not stronger, than the magic using races.

For the analogy.
You have to actually know how to draw to do it electronically with tools as well (therefore bunk comparison unfortunately). Medium makes no difference. It's more like them observing others drawing and having Machine learning do it on their behalf. Where it can do things similar but still can't perform certain feats an artist can, but it can do things that may come off as "uncanny valley" when it does perform certain feats eerily similar.

A photograph is not the same as a Painted Portrait. One can learn to take a photograph in an artistic way :P

I don't typically like analogies, they lead to exactly what's happening here where people argue over the analogy rather than the actual subject.

It's like Garleans can't use magic, so they invented magitek, which is not only just as good but arguably better.
The magic advantage of the other races has been rendered moot, as evidenced by the fact the Garleans have conquered everyone around them and built a continent spanning Empire.

[ReiMakoto]

It's like Garleans can't use magic, so they invented magitek, which is not only just as good but arguably better.
The magic advantage of the other races has been rendered moot, as evidenced by the fact the Garleans have conquered everyone around them and built a continent spanning Empire.

Its important to point out if Magitek is superior to actual magical ability, why are they obsessed with resonant research to give garleans aether manipulation, as well as why would they bother conscripting vast amounts of magic using soldiers of other races.