I hate to, but I think I put down healing for now. Please make it engaging again, SE.

[Sloprano]

Actually, Quicksand appeard on Spotify earlier so to elborate further: Noted the remark how it was pointed out earlier that "we only have Broil III" isn't entirely correct, and that is completely right. Let me explain. The "1 nuke/ 1 dot", or "Just Broil III" is a simplification and summarization of the problems I have with current Scholar. As you said, we have plenty other skills, at least 24. My issue is with how many of those goes unspent in the majority of the game. Reasons I like to think Scholar in ARR and HW was designed by a human being that understood unlimited potential is fun by that the job at any time had access to the following:

Ruin
Ruin 2
Bio
Miasma
Bio 2
Miasma 2
Aero
Stoneskin
Cleric Stance
Shadow Flare
Embrace
Summon Eos
Summon Selene
Pet hotbar
Summon Selene

Healing skills not included, but still important, since those have we still have aswell as things like AF (out of combat), Bane, Virus, Rouse etc., because they had a cooldown of 10s or more. That's fourteen skills or features, some casted, some instant, some added a bit more stuff to do. Several dots on different durations, Shadowflare had a painstakingly long cast but could be used anytime, Cleric Stance locked you into it for five seconds and the glorious danger that brought with it. Also counting Selene twice because still shame on you SE for what you did to her. All those skills, and even more if you count those on longer cooldown and even those are short, right available at your fingertips, but in a dungeon rarely found the time to actually use everything. Thats why I ran them again, and again, until I started noting the landmarks in a dungeon where best use what.


It's so good to think about that I could go from single-target to a group just with Bane, M2 and Shadowflare, it's overly long cast time allievated because I had LCP, Lily Control Panel, I could fiddle with instead of counting the millisconds on the cast bar (You know, like what Im currently doing when casting Broil III again). Compare that today with individually placing Bio, shift from Broil III to Art of War and everything else is a cooldown. It's like changing gear in an engine out of lubricant, it still moves, but god is it clunky.

This is what wanted to say before claiming "it's complexity is gone", as that word mean nothing and is useless on itself without actually a bunch of knobs, dials and switches you can press at any time. My biggest failing in this situation is probably that I couldn't give a damn about perfect balance (the tweaking of playstyles so in the eyes of a measuring device they perform exactly the same, not the card(s)), while SE went ALL IN, MOTHERFUCKERS on Balance at the 5.0 table with only a hand consisting of a pair of 4s, a Jack, a CAH card that says "Cabbage" and a a Window Washer's business card. Everyone else had folded so nobody could challenge such a ridiculous hand.

[Risvertasashi]

I'm sorry but if there is absolutely one thing I never want to see the return of, it's cleric stance. That unreliable, borderline-buggy ability was not "engaging" in the least.

[Lodi]

snip

Thank you for pointing this out, it's appaling how much free time we have on our hands, and so few means to be entertained during said time.
Any semi-decent healer will spend at the very least half of their time pressing 1111111211111112 in any content. Even BLM, whose entire kit revolves around casting as many Fire IVs as possible, still spends less time pressing the same button than the average healer does.

We're not asking for much, even gaining a dot or two or a proc system would make me want to heal full time again. I'm just tired of "healing" being nothing more than spamming Glare and using a CD when needed.

Healers are so spammy right now than even during my first Copied Factory run, I had to solo heal my alliance in maximum turbopanic mode and yet I still used Glare twice as often as my second most used spell. I mean, come on.

[Brandedblade]

So based on an Amaurot run, I've measured SCH DPS percentages.
Art of War: 51%
Broil III: 7%
Biolysis: 3%
Which totals for 61% of button presses as DPS moves.
Given Art of War and Broil III don't rotate with each other. I'd argue it's effectively 58% of the dungeon being single button presses. Even if we were to just use the 51% for Art of War, that's really high.

39% of your actions spent healing in a dungeon alot of people have overgeared and have likely spent so long in they have the mechanics memorized isnt a very small amount. Where's the Energy Drains in this? Or the Ruin IIs you likely used to weave your ogcd heals and Energy Drain.


I'm not going to disagree with the arguement that healers hit the "I know how the fight works and have less to do" wall faster then other roles as I've seen in this thread. However. Healers have always been very dependent on how well the rest of their group functions, what if the tank was undergeared, what if the dps ate all the aoes and such. One run might be so good that you spend 51% of the dungeon spamming your aoe. The other might be so bad that the 51% might drop to say... 47% as you are forced to heal people more. Just because the variables may not be massive doesn't mean it isn't there.

I f you want the results to be more accurate you would need a far bigger sample size then this.

[Saefinn]

However. Healers have always been very dependent on how well the rest of their group functions, what if the tank was undergeared, what if the dps ate all the aoes and such. One run might be so good that you spend 51% of the dungeon spamming your aoe. The other might be so bad that the 51% might drop to say... 47% as you are forced to heal people more. Just because the variables may not be massive doesn't mean it isn't there.

I f you want the results to be more accurate you would need a far bigger sample size then this.

I sought to represent what the figures meant in what I would consider a typical run by giving an example of one. Getting the data required for a proper full-on analysis taking into consideration a plethora of variables into account would take more time than I am prepared to put in, especially as I feel that level of detail isn't needed to validate my argument.

Hence it was more anecdotal and made sure to clarify that it was a run, rather than anything grander. I have posted examples before, and I made reference earlier in the thread saying I get between 30% and 60%. And my experience of how SCH felt to play in Amaurot didn't feel different to a lot of other content. At 30% it was more enjoyable, if I recall that was a Susano run in trials where people were taking damage more.

And yes, bad runs can happen, people can be undergeared or be inexperienced, also in this thread I made reference to my first healing runs of Qitana Revel and Malikah's well, where they were enjoyable /because/ people were undergeared for it, contrast to Mt Gulg where everybody was geared, which was boring as heck, despite being fresh (2nd ever run). So I agree, it's better in these cases.

But I don't think sub-par runs should be the base level of enjoyment for healing, as it never used to be that way and it wasn't an issue. If DPS screwed up and caused wipes, it has generally been accepted that they screwed up. And if the healer carried, freaking sweet.

I think the base level for enjoyment/engagement should be at a standard roulette run on high level content. At least for people who aren't new to the game. It'll be different for people who are new.

That said, I also realise people have varying levels of experience and skill when it comes to healing, so that 60% might be a 25% for the next guy. Or for those who're better healers than me, it could be more than 60%. Hence why I'm in the "give us more DPS skills or more to do in our downtime" camp instead of the "lets make healing more engaged" camp, even though I would prefer the latter, but I'm willing to settle on the former, so I can find normal content enjoyable and just find something harder if I want to get a tougher healing fix. This is just so I can go back to enjoying the role and not negatively impact those who're fine with how they heal.

[Rasikko]

I'm sorry but if there is absolutely one thing I never want to see the return of, it's cleric stance. That unreliable, borderline-buggy ability was not "engaging" in the least.

The only bad things about Cleric Stance was the times you think everything will be fine and you go into it and that is exactly when things go awry. Then you're stuck with weak heals for what was it.. 20 seconds? The other thing was it double activating. You turn it off, and it flicks itself back on O_o, thankfully that wasn't very common. Either way, I liked cleric stance.

I'm not going to disagree with the arguement that healers hit the "I know how the fight works and have less to do" wall faster then other roles as I've seen in this thread.

For me, knowing the fight minimizes my need to look at the party list and increases the preferred "watching the battlefield".

[Sloprano]

I'm sorry but if there is absolutely one thing I never want to see the return of, it's cleric stance. That unreliable, borderline-buggy ability was not "engaging" in the least.

Could be a tough relationship, and I would very much let it lie with a red bar over it had they made anything that came as close to shake up and keep the active playstyle.

I look at all the interesting things that could've been done with Aetherflows that is not oGCD cd heals but powerful mitigation tools like putting a shield spike on a target that rivals the use of Lustrate, an level 30 unlocked Fairy Gauge with endless applications both in healing, supporting or damage that didn't make me miss the pet hotbar, our unique fairies you could carefully place so the three of you made a delta area for damage and healing, exploding Galvanize effects or Fey Flare where Lily lights up an area with pixie dust, signaling a Royal Marine to mortar the area. Oh and when we are Exalted with the Pixies Lily couldcall in Feo Ul with a mob to beat up your target. Instead we got a buff to Broil III.

[Lodi]

Instead we got a buff to Broil III.

5.0 in a nutshell. We could have gotten this, or that, or this, or that. But instead, we got more potency on our autoattack. I mean, main spell.

[Punslinger]

39% of your actions spent healing in a dungeon alot of people have overgeared and have likely spent so long in they have the mechanics memorized isnt a very small amount. Where's the Energy Drains in this? Or the Ruin IIs you likely used to weave your ogcd heals and Energy Drain.


I'm not going to disagree with the arguement that healers hit the "I know how the fight works and have less to do" wall faster then other roles as I've seen in this thread. However. Healers have always been very dependent on how well the rest of their group functions, what if the tank was undergeared, what if the dps ate all the aoes and such. One run might be so good that you spend 51% of the dungeon spamming your aoe. The other might be so bad that the 51% might drop to say... 47% as you are forced to heal people more. Just because the variables may not be massive doesn't mean it isn't there.

I f you want the results to be more accurate you would need a far bigger sample size then this.

If I'm actively rooting for the rest of the party to be incompetent, just so I can be engaged when playing my job, something has gone terribly wrong with the design process.

The need to recover from party mistakes doesn't preclude healers from having a DPS rotation, just as RDM's Vercure and Verraise don't preclude it from having a DPS rotation. In the worst-case scenario, a healer would just stop DPSing and switch to spamming their heals. In the best-case scenario, a healer would still have an engaging rotation to execute. Healing shouldn't be a role that's only fun if everybody else screws up.

And, as always, there is also the MSQ. It is painfully, dreadfully boring to level a healer through the MSQ. Tanks don't have that problem. DPSers don't have that problem. But outside of parties, 90% of a healer's kit is useless.

[Gemina]

I have my issues with healing but it has very little to do with the DPS aspect of the role, and most of those issues go back to HW.

Right now, my biggest problem with healer DPS kits is SCH does not have some kind of nova bomb to drop outside melee range for AoE damage, and AoW is extremely unsatisfying. That's it. Not kidding. The "OMG, all I do is smash one button" statements don't hold a whole lot of weight with me because I honestly couldn't care less about DPSing as this role. I do it because there is nothing else to do. It doesn't matter if they made it more intricate and engaging. If I am not healing as a healer while dodging crap, I am bored out of my mind.

My biggest issues with healing have to do with scripted encounters, ilv inflation leading to reduced healing requirements, ogcd heals being too powerful, GCD heals being too weak, pet issues with SCH. magic defense does not compensate for weak physical defense, perceived neglect towards healers from the dev team; among some other things that again, have been present in FFXIV for years.

The lack of randomness in high end duties is a big reason why I spend the majority of time in PUGs for alliance raids and occasionally EX fights. Having to be reactive as a healer is not a bad thing, and those with quicker reaction times are going to be a greater asset than the opposite when things don't go according to the 'script'.

- Scripted Doom mechanic: healer plans for it and no player is ever in danger (unless healer misses the debuff)
- Random Doom mechanic: inflicted player(s) are in immediate danger, and the healer must react.

I honestly don't get why such a simple formula is so difficult for the devs to grasp. Or they are just scared to make healers true healers.