Entitled people kick from FC harassing after??

[SerLuke]

You’re leaning very heavily on one side without acknowledging the other in the post I initially replied to, even though you’re saying now that the bad experiences do apply to you. Perhaps that’s why there’s resistance to what you’re posting.

To be fair that’s what the person she replied to did, they literally said “all” shout recruit FCs were cesspools of drama, her response was just to not lump them all together not that they are all amazing.

[KageTokage]

Leadership bias is probably the biggest thing I hate about FCs from all that I've experienced.

Heaven forbid you somehow offend an officer or anyone with close ties to your FC leader in general because they can/will resort to slander just to get you kicked from the FC if they're petty enough.

I'm still pissed off at how I was slandered out of a FC a few months ago and the leader who I was previously on good terms with now has me blacklisted all because some "reputable source" said I was badmouthing them. They didn't even give me a chance to disprove what I supposedly said about them by offering any details about the when/where of the supposed incident that upset them so badly.

[SerLuke]

Leadership bias is probably the biggest thing I hate about FCs from all that I've experienced.

Heaven forbid you somehow offend an officer or anyone with close ties to your FC leader in general because they can/will resort to slander just to get you kicked from the FC if they're petty enough.

I'm still pissed off at how I was slandered out of a FC a few months ago and the leader who I was previously on good terms with now has me blacklisted all because some "reputable source" said I was badmouthing them.

I hate that kind of thing and I have explicit rules against that sort of thing, if someone had an issue with another person names will be mentioned and screenshots will be provided, none of this “you know what you did” or “you know what I’m talking about” business.

[KageTokage]

I hate that kind of thing and I have explicit rules against that sort of thing, if someone had an issue with another person names will be mentioned and screenshots will be provided, none of this “you know what you did” or “you know what I’m talking about” business.

That's basically exactly how they responded when I asked them what the heck was going on.

They soon started calling me "insane" for daring to try to pry into the specifics of why I was kicked from the FC and expected me to just take suddenly being treated like dirt sitting down. I almost feel like it was done to appease someone for them to have been so unwilling to discuss anything.

I still haven't gotten over the whole incident and just seeing that FC's name makes me feel angry.

[Theodric]

Leadership bias is probably the biggest thing I hate about FCs from all that I've experienced.

Heaven forbid you somehow offend an officer or anyone with close ties to your FC leader in general because they can/will resort to slander just to get you kicked from the FC if they're petty enough.

I think a large part of the issue is that some FC's aren't honest about how cliquey they want to be. Often anybody beyond the core officer team and their close friends are just treated as window dressing. On the other hand, I've seen members welcomed warmly who don't put in any effort at all to get involved with stuff.

I'm wary when it comes to joining a FC these days. I found a brilliant one back on Balmung towards the end of my time there but had to leave because the ping became too much to play MCH effectively and my EU schedule no longer lines up as well as it once did with NA players.

[AngelCheese77]

I am certainly not doing that.
Or at least it wasn't my intent.

I'm sorry if you can't see it from the pov that I'm trying to provide.

The point of view of...what, being jerks, then getting punished for being jerks? Really, you're playing devil's advocate for the sake of playing devil's advocate.

No they aren't.

Think of it this way.

You are at your job. You do something that gets you in trouble. You talk it out and get a warning on your file, and get back to work. Two days later when you come into work, your desk it cleaned out and you've been fired .... over the incident you had already talked about and given a warning because your boss talked to all your co-workers and everyone in the company over what you did.

I don't know about you, but I'd sure be pissed off over it. A warning was ALREADY GIVEN to the players (stated in the OP's first post). But when the OP talked to others in the FC (which IMO should not have been done unless they were officers .... dragging such drama into the open is bad), THAT is when it was said those players should be kicked. I'm in no way saying what the players did was ok in their VOD. But to make a decision, then double down without explaining it to the players why it was changed from a warning to a kick .... yes. That was bad form.

And before anyone says anything, I have ran guilds in EQ, EQ2, WoW, and FF14. SO I know what it's like to be an officer AND a guild leader.

[CazzT]

Perhaps because the implications in your first post is that you have had only good experiences throughout 20+ years of gaming.

But there's no such implication. In fact, it's the complete opposite due to pointing out how long I've been playing MMOs.

You’re quick to stress the good and denounce those who cite their own bad experiences in large guilds, but you haven’t given any descriptions to that bad that you’re now claiming to have, nor were you really acknowledging that the bad exists in large FCs (personally, all the anecdotes I’ve heard about large guilds in this game has been primarily bad—yours is one of the very few good reviews I’ve read).

I wonder if that might have everything to do with the post I was replying to that was judging ALL large guilds based on anecdotal experience....

You’re leaning very heavily on one side without acknowledging the other in the post I initially replied to, even though you’re saying now that the bad experiences do apply to you. Perhaps that’s why there’s resistance to what you’re posting.

That's not my problem that you, and others, are reading more into what I've said and putting words into my mouth that I never said nor implied. So that leaves me, again, asking how anyone is getting the impression that I've only had good experiences. The only way that can be the conclusion is if you're not actually reading what I've written and you're also putting words in my mouth.

[Saefinn]

Welcome to being an FC leader. :P It's one of the downsides. You can try to do your best and then put your foot down where you think it appropriate. Not everybody responds well to it.

Now people will no doubt go posting about it and you don't often get the courtesy to present your side, but of course better people bad mouth you than an FC to fall apart because of toxicity. This is why I allow myself to be the bad guy, whilst I don't like it, sometimes it's better than the alternative.

I have also found cliques to be one of the worst things to have in an FC and they can get pretty toxic, which is why I like having a smaller closer knit FC. It's easier to deal with if somebody does screw up or there's a dispute etc. and people understand you better and respond to you better, especially when you all know each other well enough. Every time I've let my FC get too big, I've regretted it, it doesn't work for the kind of FC I run.

And sometimes in these situations people may end up painting you in a bad light, but I just leave it. The attitude I take is if anybody listens to them and takes heed without first hearing the other side, then those people aren't worth your time thinking about.

When it comes to harassment for anyone really, I think the best thing to do is not rise to it and just simply report them. There's supposed to be a crackdown on it.

Also, one thing I always encourage to my members as an FC leader and make good practice of doing myself and that's keeping logs. It's a lot easier to assess something if you have something tangible to look at. But it also covers your own butt when you keep logs of your own, because if somebody's versions of events don't add up to what actually happened or how it went down, you can point to it and say "this is what really happened". Though obviously, this is a lot harder when it's voice.

[KalinOrthos]

You are at your job. You do something that gets you in trouble. You talk it out and get a warning on your file, and get back to work. Two days later when you come into work, your desk it cleaned out and you've been fired .... over the incident you had already talked about and given a warning because your boss talked to all your co-workers and everyone in the company over what you did.

I don't know about you, but I'd sure be pissed off over it. A warning was ALREADY GIVEN to the players (stated in the OP's first post). But when the OP talked to others in the FC (which IMO should not have been done unless they were officers .... dragging such drama into the open is bad), THAT is when it was said those players should be kicked. I'm in no way saying what the players did was ok in their VOD. But to make a decision, then double down without explaining it to the players why it was changed from a warning to a kick .... yes. That was bad form.

Well, here's two things:

1) False equivalence. Being in an FC is nothing close to having a job. Being in an FC has nowhere near the level of responsibilities placed on you that being at a job does, nor does it give actual monetary reward for fulfilling those responsibilities. A closer equivalence would be going to a coworker's place to play some D&D with their friends, actively making the game worse by having a good time at their expense, getting pulled aside and told to tone it down, before the rest of the players and the DM decide that they really don't want to play with you in their game, and not inviting you next time. Sure, it can be "bad form" for whatever that's worth, but maybe don't be an asshole in the first place. It's really not that hard.

2) The situation you're describing happens all the time anyways. It's called a probationary period, and your employer can fire you for whatever reason they see fit, or for no reason, for that matter. So. The point you're trying to make is moot. You can be pissed off at it all you like, but they don't need a reason to get rid of you. And that still doesn't mean you can go to your previous employer and harass them for getting rid of you. If anything, that just solidifies their decision and gives you a bad rep for other possible employment opportunities.

Like, for actuals, why are you guys trying to defend the obvious offenders here for being garbage people?

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

I am in a small FC of just friends and let me tell you drama is not exclusive to the large ones. Our already tiny FC has busted up twice, with vital founding members transferring to other servers (or datacenters) and whoever was left limping on the best they could.

Hopefully, with Fellowships, we'll see the disenfranchized band together, nomad style instead of seeking FCs. Sure there's buffs and bonuses but essentially FCs are just an extra chanel and apartment--depending on how serious you are about crafting/subs. If they tweak the Fellowship system (like give us call letters and such) I can see a huge shift in Fellowships over FCs. Only time will tell however. I personally look forward to it.