FF 5.X Alternative Raid Buff Alignment and Openers

[Leidiriv]

Speaking as someone who actually plays Red Mage, that opener makes me want to cry. First, the Embolden is extremely late. Second, Embolden should always be in the second weave slot to maximize the GCD gains for yourself and your party members. Third, the absolute earliest Acceleration can be used in the opener is at -16. Also, outside of fights like Eden Prime or Titania, a 10 spell opener is overall better thanks to the increased mana generation, which allows for more Reprise usage throughout the entire fight.

[Oxdarock]

Speaking as someone who actually plays Red Mage, that opener makes me want to cry. First, the Embolden is extremely late. Second, Embolden should always be in the second weave slot to maximize the GCD gains for yourself and your party members. Third, the absolute earliest Acceleration can be used in the opener is at -16. Also, outside of fights like Eden Prime or Titania, a 10 spell opener is overall better thanks to the increased mana generation, which allows for more Reprise usage throughout the entire fight.

Ah! Thank you for pointing those out. You really only get the melee combo, VerFlare, and Scorch within Manafication, so those should definitely be switched. If the Embolden timing you're referring to after the first Corps-a-Corps with Engagement before Manafication, then I can say that the Embolden timing I'm going for does 30 potency more since it should catch the entire melee combo, plus Corps-a-Corps (plus both VerFlare and Scortch get an 8% damage boost).

Also, whoops! Made a big boo-boo with that Acceleration timing note. Forgot that the timer still counts down until all the stacks are used, so I'd probably advise using it as early as 15secs. Thank you.

[Leidiriv]

Ah! Thank you for pointing those out. You really only get the melee combo, VerFlare, and Scorch within Manafication, so those should definitely be switched. If the Embolden timing you're referring to after the first Corps-a-Corps with Engagement before Manafication, then I can say that the Embolden timing I'm going for does 30 potency more since it should catch the entire melee combo, plus Corps-a-Corps (plus both VerFlare and Scortch get an 8% damage boost).

Also, whoops! Made a big boo-boo with that Acceleration timing note. Forgot that the timer still counts down until all the stacks are used, so I'd probably advise using it as early as 15secs. Thank you.

Regarding the Embolden, the recent balance changes have actually made it so RDM generally prefers to use Embolden after the 4th spell instead of after the 6th or 8th. The only exception is if we end up paired up with very back-loaded classes like SAM, in which case we still use it after the 6th spell.

Also, Corps-a-corps (along with all of RDM's oGCD abilities) are completely unaffected by Embolden, as RDM deals solely physical damage through their oGCD suite. Embolden only buffs RDM's Spells and Weaponskills.

[Oxdarock]

Regarding the Embolden, the recent balance changes have actually made it so RDM generally prefers to use Embolden after the 4th spell instead of after the 6th or 8th. The only exception is if we end up paired up with very back-loaded classes like SAM, in which case we still use it after the 6th spell.

Also, Corps-a-corps (along with all of RDM's oGCD abilities) are completely unaffected by Embolden, as RDM deals solely physical damage through their oGCD suite. Embolden only buffs RDM's Spells and Weaponskills.

Huh. That's...odd. Though it means that Corps-a-Corps, Displacement, and Fleche are all buffed by Brotherhood, so that's nice.

(I haven't switched the positions of Embolden and Manafication yet but continue reading this reply as if I have)

Anyway, even if it's used after the 4th spell instead of the 6th, the difference in the potency boost is still the same (actually 32 potency instead of 30) when using Embolden before the melee combo since all three weaponskills will fit within the first four seconds (Remember that weaponskills hit instantly, so the Enchanted Redoublement actually hits around 3 seconds rather than 5.2 seconds, which is about when VerFlare hits). Here's how it looks when you compare the potency of both situations within the first 4 seconds of Embolden:

VerStone + VerAero (300+350) x 1.1 = 715 - 650 = 65
Full Melee Combo (210+290+470) x 1.1 = 1067 - 970 = 97
97-65= 32

The difference pretty much widens from there since the latter is followed by VerFlare and Scortch, both with an 8% boost while VerFire and VerAero gets the 8% boost following a 4th GCD Embolden. And that's before I even add in the 5% damage boost from Manafication for the 8th GCD Embolden (which I honestly forgot to do), so the difference of the potency gained between both situations is actually higher.

[Leidiriv]

Huh. That's...odd. Though it means that Corps-a-Corps, Displacement, and Fleche are all buffed by Brotherhood, so that's nice.

(I haven't switched the positions of Embolden and Manafication yet but continue reading this reply as if I have)

Anyway, even if it's used after the 4th spell instead of the 6th, the difference in the potency boost is still the same (actually 32 potency instead of 30) when using Embolden before the melee combo since all three weaponskills will fit within the first four seconds (Remember that weaponskills hit instantly, so the Enchanted Redoublement actually hits around 3 seconds rather than 5.2 seconds, which is about when VerFlare hits). Here's how it looks when you compare the potency of both situations within the first 4 seconds of Embolden:

VerStone + VerAero (300+350) x 1.1 = 715 - 650 = 65
Full Melee Combo (210+290+470) x 1.1 = 1067 - 970 = 97
97-65= 32

The difference pretty much widens from there since the latter is followed by VerFlare and Scortch, both with an 8% boost while VerFire and VerAero gets the 8% boost following a 4th GCD Embolden. And that's before I even add in the 5% damage boost from Manafication for the 8th GCD Embolden (which I honestly forgot to do), so the difference of the potency gained between both situations is actually higher.

Okay, first off. What Embolden can do for the RDM is practically a pittance compared to what Embolden can do for the party. Delaying Embolden to the 8th spell as you suggest in this opener is flatly wrong, and no amount of tiny personal potency gains will convince me otherwise.

[Vendalwind]

Im just gonna say right now. delaying trick attack till 15 seconds is such a huge dps loss for nins and everyone. honestly NIN optimal we'd be using it at 8 seconds if solo was all that mattered, but there is absolutely no good reason for us to delay it to 15 seconds. I do like that you want monk to be different and actually play with that intent btw, but doing so isn't worth asking other people to play crappy to satisfy you. im just noting that asking NIN's and others to further delay their buffs is not something we would ever want to do. additionally your proposed ninja opener has serious flaws even if you wanted to do that.

First: if were waiting so long before tricking there is no reason to pot so early, especially since with how you've lined up trick out pot will miss a raiton and possibly a bhava as well. Additionally potting after suiton would clip majorly because suiton isnt a standard gcd, its cooldown is only 1.5. youd cost us 1/3rd of a GCD right there. Pots have to be used after a weaponskill gcd and even then will still often clip for us. This would be like you using a pot after a meditate. it wouldnt work.
Second: because of how you use mug and delay trick you have us overcapping ninki by 10
Third: mathematically the extra bhava+ bunshin hit + gcd is only a boost in trick if the GCD is aeolian, because you have delayed trick that GCD is not an aeolian and thus just using a second raiton is better. unfortunately this also means combo breaking thus you also need to finish the combo before entering the trick phase. In short this is a serious problem and distinct loss.
Fourth: because you delay our first raiton till post TCJ AND another GCD AND 5 seconds anyways cause of the delayed trick you have cost us 60% of a ninjutsu cast. Thats a huge loss.
Fifth, because of the same effects of missaligning and losing raiton in the trick we will also be unable to properly save raitons for future tricks because of how the GCD will arise.
Sixth: 10 second trick attack has also been in general discovered to line up with all current raids except maybe titan extremely well. moving it even 5 seconds later would cost us a trick in at least two fights i can think off right off to bat.

Theres just alot of subtleties about how the NIN opener operates right now (even in it's tentative form) that this opener would disrupt.

Additionally since hide resets both ninjutsu uses a proper nin has to huton>doton>hide>Suiton in the prepull. Oh and again btw delaying trick also means trick effects less doton hits (doton as a ground dot checks debuffs individually for each tick where trick is concerned) In fact putting trick at 15 seconds basically means it missises all ticks, wheras in our opener currently it catches 2 of them i believe.

[Oxdarock]

snip

Ok, let's answer these questions one by one, shall we?

1. I've actually used the TA opener I listed and the only thing at risk of missing TA is the second Bhava. Raiton makes it in just fine. Seems like Gust slash does miss the pot window though, so Bunshin should be moved up 1 GCD.
2. You're right. It over-capped by 10. Just means Meisui needs to be pushed back after Raiton and the first Bhava moved up after the second Suiton. Thanks for pointing that out.
3. I'm not sure I understand how this is worded. If you mean to say using Aeo instead of Spin in TA is a dps gain, you're correct, however it can also knock the alignment off, and if this causes a bigger loss from other classes over NIN's gain, then it's a moot point (unless you don't care about raid dps).
4. I'm not sure where this percentage number came from. If you mean mudras over-cap for 2 GCDs, then yes, you are correct. If you can math it out and this consistently leads to a loss of a Raiton use over the course of an entire fight, feel free to use everything within TA a GCD or two earlier.
5.Again, both Raitons fit within TA just fine. Only way it won't is if you have high ping.
6. Again, if using TA up to 10 seconds gains you an extra cast overall, feel free to do so.

Lastly, like Salted Earth, Doton isn't affected by TA (going off what FFlogs says anyway). It snapshots the buffs you have when it's used. Plus, since you use Doton before TA, it ends up doing less than Raiton (because again, both fit within TA).