My god, Square *head in hands* - RE: monk

[Rockette]

I mained monk since the beginning of ARR and its until now that I had given up and switch to a different job. It sucks seeing your favorite class just go down to being frustrating. I think the best version of monk that I enjoyed so much as near the end of Stormblood.

You and everyone else my dude.

[Oxdarock]

I think most MNKs preferred TK rotation era because it made use of pretty much all of our skills. We weren't only sitting in 1 stance, never using TK, etc, etc. We were involved with our entire kit which felt amazing and rewarding, but SE doesn't want MNK to play in such a way I guess. They want us to click our 6 main buttons, only ever use 1 stance, and be happy with just that.

This is the exact reason I went through the trouble of making a guide the makes use of the TK within the rotation for 5.0. I just can't bear to go to the pre-4.2 days of only pressing 6 buttons over and over. I got so bored with that I switched to SAM for one patch. When I discovered the SB TK rotation, it reinvigorated the class for me and made it really fun to play.

Only thing SE needs to do is make sure that Anatman gives a GL stack before the next GCD with no clipping and MNK will be fine. The only button that will find little to no use will be Fists of Earth.

[Noctisnine]

I'm also a monk main but I feel bad for what they did to our opener, not only that but buffed all other jobs and changing some other while we have 2 useless skills laying there doing nothing. Why cant they change our job instead of just giving it dps to solve the problems. Dragoon now does more dps then monk a job that has a very good rotation and it feels fun to play. Also has a crit buff and a teather, while we got double nerf and 0 problems addressed.

[IruruCece]

I'm also a monk main but I feel bad for what they did to our opener, not only that but buffed all other jobs and changing some other while we have 2 useless skills laying there doing nothing.

This is basically the exact scenario I was worried about when I was raging in the "monks need to be nerfed, change my mind" threads that were cropping up in the weeks before the patch dropped. We got a hilariously dumb nerf that doesn't really change how we play very much, and we're still left with mechanical issues that have existed for years on top of the garbage that was introduced with Shadowbringers. And they did it most likely because the damage we do "looks fine."

SE basically refuses to actually look at how the class is played and how its buttons actually interact with each other beyond the basic rotation, which has pretty much been the way it is from the beginning. They feign concern about button bloat, and do nothing meaningful to solve that issue with monks, because we still have portions of our kit that we flat out ignore or barely use most of the time because there is no mechanical incentive or benefit to do so, or the use cases for them are exceedingly limited. We're a job that has an emphasis on positionals, but now we have the means to completely ignore them for significant portions of time, something I have never once thought to myself was even necessary.

It feels like they've tried to make this job appeal to people who don't even like it to begin with, and all they've managed to do is tick off people who have stuck with it years despite SE's demonstrable neglect of the job beyond touching our potencies.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I think a lot of the issue could be fixed with not brute forcing most of our DPS into Leaden Bootshine. We won't use PB in the opener because spamming Leaden is infinitely better. We'd rather deal with literally being afk for the first few seconds of the fight then wasting PB on stacks. It doesn't help that PB is on an unusually long CD.

I always did think just dumping massive potency into Boothshine was lazy anyway, why not give us that potency elsewhere, like letting us use Tornado Kick or SSS in more situations?
We probably won't see any changes till next expansion for this, it's a bit too broken right now, but I hope SE realizes it's time for some real change with Monk and no more keeping things the same while additional situational gimmicks to them.

[Elysium]

So.. right now we stick with the Anatman opener and just wait for the GL stack and do everything just like before?

[Rockette]

So.. right now we stick with the Anatman opener and just wait for the GL stack and do everything just like before?

Yes. Lol.

There is also a PB opener and the theory around the two talked about on Balance discord. I don't know if I'm allowed to link that guide here so.... you can go find it. Anatman still beats out the PB opener generally though.

[ZyrinMisharuji]

So.. right now we stick with the Anatman opener and just wait for the GL stack and do everything just like before?

Anatman is always going to be more DPS but with the change and depending on your comp, PB can come a lot closer than it was before. The DPS isn't so meaningful that it's PB gets you low purple, Anatman gets your orange or anything like that, so it's kinda just play to your preference right now. PB is less than about 100 DPS behind Anatman around 3 minutes (in a sim, not necessarily in a fight with maneuvering for mechanics and such) and if your group has DRG/SCH but doesn't have DNC/NIN/SMN/RDM/AST then PB gets even closer to Anatman (within 50 or so DPS).

[Parisotte]

This is basically the exact scenario I was worried about when I was raging in the "monks need to be nerfed, change my mind" threads that were cropping up in the weeks before the patch dropped. We got a hilariously dumb nerf that doesn't really change how we play very much, and we're still left with mechanical issues that have existed for years on top of the garbage that was introduced with Shadowbringers. And they did it most likely because the damage we do "looks fine."

SE basically refuses to actually look at how the class is played and how its buttons actually interact with each other beyond the basic rotation, which has pretty much been the way it is from the beginning. They feign concern about button bloat, and do nothing meaningful to solve that issue with monks, because we still have portions of our kit that we flat out ignore or barely use most of the time because there is no mechanical incentive or benefit to do so, or the use cases for them are exceedingly limited. We're a job that has an emphasis on positionals, but now we have the means to completely ignore them for significant portions of time, something I have never once thought to myself was even necessary.

It feels like they've tried to make this job appeal to people who don't even like it to begin with, and all they've managed to do is tick off people who have stuck with it years despite SE's demonstrable neglect of the job beyond touching our potencies.

I am starting to think a whole new balance dev team is necessary. They keep screwing it up. A team that plays both pro level and casual. This is getting embarrassing. Every patch is a wait to see who got OP and which class got gutted. There's also always 1 class that had their guts shoved back in wrong and sewed up poorly only to never be the same again. Entire classes forgotten for multiple patches because "reasons." They need to do better. They need to actually experience these classes on the pro and casual levels. Not just pro! This balancing performance is very sub-par. If they can't handle it, get someone who can. Stop doing things poorly, and get someone who can do things correctly. Embarrassing, just embarrassing.

I appreciate what they do with music. (very good!) I appreciate they are trying to have some semblance of a story. (not shakespeare, but beggars can't be choosers in this market) But for god's sake, get someone to balance your gameplay for you. SE, you obviously can't handle it.

And I am not even going to touch on that pure molten, raging, absolute dumpster fire that is PVP. (No offense to those who enjoy it. More power to you.)

[ZyrinMisharuji]

I am starting to think a whole new balance dev team is necessary. They keep screwing it up. A team that plays both pro level and casual. This is getting embarrassing. Every patch is a wait to see who got OP and which class got gutted. There's also always 1 class that had their guts shoved back in wrong and sewed up poorly only to never be the same again. Entire classes forgotten for multiple patches because "reasons." They need to do better. They need to actually experience these classes on the pro and casual levels. Not just pro! This balancing performance is very sub-par. If they can't handle it, get someone who can. Stop doing things poorly, and get someone who can do things correctly. Embarrassing, just embarrassing.

I appreciate what they do with music. (very good!) I appreciate they are trying to have some semblance of a story. (not shakespeare, but beggars can't be choosers in this market) But for god's sake, get someone to balance your gameplay for you. SE, you obviously can't handle it.

And I am not even going to touch on that pure molten, raging, absolute dumpster fire that is PVP. (No offense to those who enjoy it. More power to you.)

What probably annoys me most is how MNKs will find a way to use what's in our kit to push our DPS as much as possible and make the job as fun as we can, but then SE brings down the hammer like "We don't want you playing that way. You need to play this way!"