Summoner is doing too much in 5.10

[Zerathor]

not really, chances are if a class does 1000 dps more at 99 it will also do 1000 (or at least 800) more at 75%, or 50% , and in that regard its not only cutting edge progression, like yes, that where its most important, but exactly because not everyone can be the 99% allways top gameplay world first type of player it will allways be relevant.

imagine your group is doing a fight that needs 75000 raid dps, your group is doing 74.500-75.500 in an average try if no one dies (doesnt matter if this means your group sucks ass by current standarts or whatever, thats completly irrelevant to the discussion) , basically you get through if no one messes up and you got a good run as a group.

now imagine you change your class and suddenly you got a 1000 dps buffer, imagine a second player does the same and goes from one of the weaker to the stronger classes and suddenly you got a buffer of 1,5-2k. that may not sound like much, but in practice this is huge

And now imagine that job that is providing that damage buffer also can just raise people if they need to, because why the hell not.

[Akiudo]

And now imagine that job that is providing that damage buffer also can just raise people if they need to, because why the hell not.

i'm actually with you there, just didn't want to overcomplicate my answer.

The nature of BLM is such that it actually performs its relative best in the highest percentiles. It looks worse the further down you go. You can see it in the Titan statistics right now, where in the 99th percentile BLM still sits at #2, but just going down to 95th it drops to #4, and by the 80th it's below DRG at #5. (And before the "but you need more samples!" people come in, it's a similar story in 5.0, where BLM drops from #1 at the top tiers to #4 by the 50th percentile).

Again, that makes this all even more problematic for the less-awesome groups, because that's where you have people that run up against enrage timers. It can create a really toxic atmosphere for someone just trying to "play what they enjoy" if everyone is annoyed that they're not playing the easier-and-better-and-safer Job that would enable a clear.

to be fair, blackmage really is the outlier in that equation in that it pretty much has the steepest dropoff at all levels and i mostly tried to answer the question provided, mind you the pre patch situation of 4th place (at the 50 percentile) is not really a problem in that we measure raid contribution as a whole anyways, if anything blm at 4th at 50% and 1st at the top would generally mean optimizing blackmages harder to optimize gameplay gets rewarded with higher potential allready, the problem with summoner as it stands seems to be that its basically easier to deal more damage than the competition (blackmage in that case) at basically every skill level while adding more utility in the form of a rezz.


to form a short summaration of my own thoughts on the matter though, less my reply seems like i think summoner is fine, i don't really get why they made it this strong, or if this was even intentional or more of a fuckup with the egi changes, i do think summoner and redmage aswell should be in the general striking range of blackmage, and blms steep dropoff is kinda problematic to balance around, but i also do think that the utility they add (read=the rezz, buffing group dps is not utility if it comes at the cost of personal damage)needs at least some taxation, both these classes definitely were overtaxed before the patch, but there is a middle ground between "9-12% below blackmage but got a rezz" and "basically equal to at least more consistent if not better than blackmage+got a rezz.