Revelations from SHADOWBRINGERS

[RyuDragnier]

Zenos will most likely admit to the death of his father. Who can match him in power in Garlemald? Nobody. No one would dare challenge his authority, so they'll all follow out of fear of him. It won't be until some unseen event occurs that they will turn on him. I have a feeling the Populares however, will turn to Eorzea for help defeating him.

[Edax]

Zenos will most likely admit to the death of his father. Who can match him in power in Garlemald? Nobody. No one would dare challenge his authority, so they'll all follow out of fear of him. It won't be until some unseen event occurs that they will turn on him. I have a feeling the Populares however, will turn to Eorzea for help defeating him.

That's not how power works. Achilles might have been an invincible warrior but the Greeks followed Agamemnon. People don't look to the thugs for leadership at the national level outside of fiction. Nearly everyone in the Empire would have cause to oppose Zenos, especially out of fear. If he'll betray the Empire and murder the Emperor, then nobody is safe.

[Alleluia]

That's not how power works. Achilles might have been an invincible warrior but the Greeks followed Agamemnon. People don't look to the thugs for leadership at the national level outside of fiction. Nearly everyone in the Empire would have cause to oppose Zenos, especially out of fear. If he'll betray the Empire and murder the Emperor, then nobody is safe.

Outside of republics and democracies, that is entirely how power works. lol If you have the might behind you, you get to be in charge. IRL that might means being the strongest/most ruthless individual in some setups, and means having the right connections and political alliances in others, depending on the society. In fantasy games, its being invincible. If you are unable to be opposed, you are unable to be opposed. The people you are dominating don't have to like you for you to be in charge.

Also, in your example, 1. Achilles didn't want to be in charge of everyone. And 2. Agamemnon had the might of his political savvy behind him, in addition to being a respectable enough fighter. Neither were commanding through fear, but that's just b/c they didn't need to/want to. Its still an entirely viable path to take. They just didn't.

[Edax]

Outside of republics and democracies, that is entirely how power works. lol If you have the might behind you, you get to be in charge. IRL that might means being the strongest/most ruthless individual in some setups, and means having the right connections and political alliances in others, depending on the society. In fantasy games, its being invincible. If you are unable to be opposed, you are unable to be opposed. The people you are dominating don't have to like you for you to be in charge.

Also, in your example, 1. Achilles didn't want to be in charge of everyone. And 2. Agamemnon had the might of his political savvy behind him, in addition to being a respectable enough fighter. Neither were commanding through fear, but that's just b/c they didn't need to/want to. Its still an entirely viable path to take. They just didn't.

That's my point. Zenos is physically strong but as politically weak as a kitten. He's the governor of 2 provinces that are under enemy control, there are rumors that he's actually dead or the puppet of foreign influences, he's infamous for having no interest in administration and for how he was disinherited out of the line of succession. National Leaders aren't chosen by how much they can bench press.

Zenos is so politically weak, nearly any military leader can make viable bid to be Emperorship now, and Zenos wont have time to personally slay every member of the rebel armies and even if he did, he would have just demolished the military strengthen of the Empire to get the throne. Though personally I don't think the writers will go down this path.

[Cilia]

That's my point. Zenos is physically strong but as politically weak as a kitten. He's the governor of 2 provinces that are under enemy control, there are rumors that he's actually dead or the puppet of foreign influences, he's infamous for having no interest in administration and for how he was disinherited out of the line of succession. National Leaders aren't chosen by how much they can bench press.

Zenos is so politically weak, nearly any military leader can make viable bid to be Emperorship now, and Zenos wont have time to personally slay every member of the rebel armies and even if he did, he would have just demolished the military strengthen of the Empire to get the throne. Though personally I don't think the writers will go down this path.

While the rumors swirling around him might be a dent, as far as we know Zenos was never formally disowned by Varis, so he would be the legitimate heir to the Garlean throne. He said he wasn't interested in assuming it, but if it gets him a fight with us quicker I'd see Zenos taking it up to draw us out. And while modern folk might not be terribly interested in following a bloodthirsty tyrant, Garlemald has quite a lot of warrior culture, so while the Populares will likely oppose him the Optimates probably would not...

I mean, the man beat down an Ascian in his own body, using a borrowed corpse so effectively said Ascian (a nigh-immortal, immensely powerful sorcerer) decided to get the heck out of dodge. He singlehandedly turned the tide of a war. If anybody opposes him Zenos could probably kill them pretty easily; the number of people able to go toe-to-toe with him and live to tell the tale can be counted on one hand.

[Edax]

While the rumors swirling around him might be a dent, as far as we know Zenos was never formally disowned by Varis, so he would be the legitimate heir to the Garlean throne. He said he wasn't interested in assuming it, but if it gets him a fight with us quicker I'd see Zenos taking it up to draw us out. And while modern folk might not be terribly interested in following a bloodthirsty tyrant, Garlemald has quite a lot of warrior culture, so while the Populares will likely oppose him the Optimates probably would not...

I mean, the man beat down an Ascian in his own body, using a borrowed corpse so effectively said Ascian (a nigh-immortal, immensely powerful sorcerer) decided to get the heck out of dodge. He singlehandedly turned the tide of a war. If anybody opposes him Zenos could probably kill them pretty easily; the number of people able to go toe-to-toe with him and live to tell the tale can be counted on one hand.

That's not a given. Zenos was never formally named heir and given Zeno's military track record, I'm not sure Optimates would be enthused at seeing all the provinces of the Empire handed to the enemy on a silver platter like Zeno's provinces were. Zenos might make a good champion of the Empire, but that doesn't mean the Otimates would want to make him their leader as well. The Optimates don't need to give him a crown to beat up the Empire's enemies and if Zenos keeps attacking the Empire, then he's no good for the Empire.

[MrThinker]

/snip...Zenos was never formally named heir.../snip

Are you 100% sure about that? For some reason I was under the impression that formally naming Zenos his heir was one of the first things Varis did to consolidate his power as Emperor after the War of Succession.

[Cilia]

I thought there wasn't an actual fight between Elidibus and Zenos, Elidibus basically just spilled the beans and booked it. I recall Zenos lamenting this because he wanted to fight his own body.

While musing to himself up on the moon Elidibus says that Zenos was able to defeat him, despite having the latter's body with all its "uncanny strength." This, and his new inability to properly conduct events going forward, convinced Elidibus to tell Zenos everything we learned about the true nature of the world in 5.0 and then book it.

That's not a given. Zenos was never formally named heir and given Zeno's military track record, I'm not sure Optimates would be enthused at seeing all the provinces of the Empire handed to the enemy on a silver platter like Zeno's provinces were. Zenos might make a good champion of the Empire, but that doesn't mean the Otimates would want to make him their leader as well. The Optimates don't need to give him a crown to beat up the Empire's enemies and if Zenos keeps attacking the Empire, then he's no good for the Empire.

One of the first things Varis did after assuming the throne was to name Zenos his heir specifically to avoid a succession crisis like the civil war he had to fight against his uncle to claim it. He does say later that he never intended to actually let Zenos on the throne, but I take this to mean that Varis only named him successor as a placeholder until a more suitable candidate could be found.

[Alleo]

That's my point. Zenos is physically strong but as politically weak as a kitten. He's the governor of 2 provinces that are under enemy control, there are rumors that he's actually dead or the puppet of foreign influences, he's infamous for having no interest in administration and for how he was disinherited out of the line of succession. National Leaders aren't chosen by how much they can bench press.

Zenos is so politically weak, nearly any military leader can make viable bid to be Emperorship now, and Zenos wont have time to personally slay every member of the rebel armies and even if he did, he would have just demolished the military strengthen of the Empire to get the throne. Though personally I don't think the writers will go down this path.

Isnt Garlemald whole motto that being powerful gives you the right to rule? And if that is the case then Zenos should have no problems because he was just simply more powerful and if people even did not go against Varis I doubt they would raise their weapons against someone that is known to show no mercy and that plays in a whole other league.

Are you 100% sure about that? For some reason I was under the impression that formally naming Zenos his heir was one of the first things Varis did to consolidate his power as Emperor after the War of Succession.

Yes that is the case which is also why Elidibus took over Zenos body because Zenos being truly death might have started another war of succession which they did not want at that time.

[Alleluia]

That's my point. Zenos is physically strong but as politically weak as a kitten. He's the governor of 2 provinces that are under enemy control, there are rumors that he's actually dead or the puppet of foreign influences, he's infamous for having no interest in administration and for how he was disinherited out of the line of succession. National Leaders aren't chosen by how much they can bench press.

Zenos is so politically weak, nearly any military leader can make viable bid to be Emperorship now, and Zenos wont have time to personally slay every member of the rebel armies and even if he did, he would have just demolished the military strengthen of the Empire to get the throne. Though personally I don't think the writers will go down this path.

Sorry. I probably should have put "functioning" republics and democracies. The empire is theoretically a monarchy with an advisory senate, from what I understand. Its not exactly a will of the people kind of setup, but its something that requires a normal man to be politically savvy in some fashion to achieve/maintain power. But that's b/c there are other people/groups in the system that can be a threat to you/your power if you don't handle them well. In this case, Zenos breaks that, b/c no one but a group of roughly 8 adventurers but the WoL is a threat to him. Maybe, if enough people were willing to die to get him, others could take him down. But they'd have to be some Badass Normals at this point, from what we've been shown. And quite a few of them, at that. Zenos has bypassed the usual checks on power b/c he's personally much stronger than anyone those checks could handle.

Their only saving grace is he doesn't particularly want power or to rule, so he'll likely just use the resources towards his own relatively narrow goals, and leave most of the country to languish. Which from the average garlean's perspective is bad, but I say count your blessings, guys.

...Unless (being as spoiler-free as possible here), he decides to take a page from FF15 in his pursuit of his goals. Then they're all screwed.

But yeah, there aren't OP supermen in the real world, so power doesn't work like that irl beyond pure warrior cultures, which are usually small and not something we'd consider a modern nation-state. But its completely consistent that power works like this in FF14's setting b/c there ARE OP supermen. Democaracy inevitably breaks when the populace is outgunned by those that seek to be tyrants.