Can we please just have instanced housing already?

[Shougun]

I've heard you mention Wildstar many times, but not having played the game, I don't have the context with which to make an opinion.

Just one of the more straight forward examples I can link videos to and pretty much the sole reason it lasted so long as it won awards (top housing sort of awards), and kept a whole community alive around that content for quite a time. Things like the devs overly fixated on hardcore content made it suffer (one of the few very common references to issues that game had, bumpy launch being another). Rift is a semi-similar house system, not that I'm saying they need to be exactly like those two systems. Mostly just imagine your yard and house specifically that you have in the wards but it's about 10x larger with a larger item maximum (and instanced of course lol, pocket world as you said is a fairly good description), a space everyone can obtain (though there are a lot of gil sinks in it), and because it's your own space you can scale objects (increase or decrease size) or place at any height (no glitches needed). As well since it's in your own area you get access to silly things like floating water, rocks, skybox (change the sky/weather), etc, which can turn into not so silly things (like you can use all of those creative powers together to make hand crafted sky islands with waterfalls that rains and has a misty cloudy sky, just because you can).

When I say community/communities in reference to wildstar it's a specific concept Wildstar came up with that took that large personal pocketworld described above and seamed it together with 4 other pocket worlds (5 total, making a huge zone basically), like if you imagine any other instanced pocket world housing system in another game but now you've got hand picked neighbors in a very large space (technically up 20 could control stuff within, just that 5 master plots from 5 different players are used as a groundwork).


(image of the community map, the 5 (very large) plots are outlined but you can decorate in-between them as well)

That's the massively too long didn't play the game description lol.

Any instanced system that leaves the wards alone would be fine by me.

I would like to give ward users the power of the instance too, since I think it would be unfair to ward users if they don't get the new toys (keeping value in the ward investment also being an important concept to me, and allowing those to take advantage of new stuff that can't fit into the wards like towers or other structures like perhaps the final zone objects in Shadowbringers), so yeah- I don't want to see the wards destroyed.

To me that'd hurt like seeing your job become limited out of no where. "You play Gunbreaker? Yeah well we made that limited job now, no DF". OOF... XD

Did you enjoy deep dungeons? Yeah we removed that. . . lol.

Also thanks for saying this, I am more clear now then ever on your position- one which is mostly annoyed at people who say everyone thinks it is bad or worried people will remove it on you. Not saying we'll always agree (more literal person than I am lol), but I am clear on where you stand, and why, and that we're not really at odds (you're allowed to like what you like! that's totally fair) and so long as I don't come in trying to wrecking ball your content it's not the end of the world to you then (which is also a pretty fair concern lol).

I was getting that feeling before but I wasn't honestly sure if you were more on "I don't want you to have it even though it might not hurt me, just want to humbug say no" (which some people are, and I don't find that a super compelling argument lol) or in the "I don't want whatever you're asking for to hurt what I enjoy, and stop telling me what I like is trash". Might have been clear before but I haven't stalked all your posts to know 100% what you were about. Obviously on the later part about disparaging the system itself while I'll not say trash just because I don't feel like I need to say that to say I don't like something or think it's as good as it can be. . . but I'd be dishonest if I said I particularly had a love for the ward system lol, but I'm fine if others like it and I hope we can get something more that everyone can take advantage of without losing something in the process .

[Enla]

Thing is they can absolutely mix instanced housing with the idea of a neighborhood. You can have a centralized 'lobby' area for each ward area that has the marketboard, vendors, and more, and that has several 'gates' that lead to individual housing instances. Or even integrate what Black Desert does and have facades of houses that you buy into that lead into individual instances from the lobby. There's a lot of ways they can make instanced housing work that could include a community based feel. Heck if they do Airship housing they could make the lobby area a genuine terminal where you 'dock' your ship before going out to the skies.

Again I personally would prefer the current wards be grandfathered in, but I don't think exploring other ideas would be a bad thing.

[AngeliouxRein]

This thread is interesting, I will agree with Edax, that I like the wards. I want that to stay but I also don't mind instanced housing being added, as long as we keep the wards. My thing is to everyone who keeps saying their wards are so dead is; have any of you tried to invite people back to them? On Crystal, I always occasionally see party finder ads of people holding events or inviting people to their house after they redecorate for upcoming holidays. Basically, the people here keep their wards alive by actively inviting people to them for whatever reason. It's not SE's job to keep them active.

It just sounds a little suspect for me to see people complaining about that when you probably didn't even try to keep the ward alive. It's almost like people trying to suddenly take over a dying FC even though they never contributed.

P.S. In case it came off as me being rude, I was not trying to be. Just trying to get a better understanding of things o/

[Shougun]

This thread is interesting, I will agree with Edax, that I like the wards. I want that to stay but I also don't mind instanced housing being added, as long as we keep the wards. My thing is to everyone who keeps saying their wards are so dead is; have any of you tried to invite people back to them? On Crystal, I always occasionally see party finder ads of people holding events or inviting people to their house after they redecorate for upcoming holidays. Basically, the people here keep their wards alive by actively inviting people to them for whatever reason. It's not SE's job to keep them active.

It just sounds a little suspect for me to see people complaining about that when you probably didn't even try to keep the ward alive. It's almost like people trying to suddenly take over a dying FC even though they never contributed.

P.S. In case it came off as me being rude, I was not trying to be. Just trying to get a better understanding of things o/

I think, at least speaking for myself and whoever thinks similarly, that you could simply respond to "it's your job to keep the neighborhood alive" with "okay, and I can do that in an instance" lol.

I mean what would be the difference from being able to create an invitational event on the party finder that leads to a physical address and one that leads to an instanced? Especially if SE set up a system that allowed you to search a catalog of listed public instances (or create invitational cards for the party finder that hotlink to your instance if you join). Join X server, Y location, Z ward vs "search my name in the instanced house catalog/right click or whatever" or even better yet vs "click on the invitational teleport inside the party finder event" (this invitational card idea could be added for ward housing too to be honest).

Also I'd probably say that while I'm happy some people like to inspire that neighborhood feeling I don't think when people say their neighborhood is dead that they're speaking out of sorry as much as they're saying something between "can't even do what it intended and cost me in other features* for that thing it can't do" and for some maybe "it failed it's purpose so just kill it and give us this instead, I actually wanted this thing anyways". Now to be fair as you've said and Edax has said there are some who do like it and don't agree, but just saying that not everyone who says it is dead is saying it like "oh noooooOoo this system would be great if it was functional" but more "I dislike it, I don't even think it does what it's meant to do- we need a new system and this current one doesn't justify itself in my opinion". Level of politeness to rudeness varying from person to person of course lol (my vague generalization/concept of what people feel when they say that and are pro-instanced houses/pocket worlds/upgraded apartments).

*Features including things like:

• Full feature availability, most instanced systems built that way from the start are able to meet the demand presented to them and present all options at the same time
• New features, if housing is a smoother access system then new features are easier to add, unlike right now where if you add something to FC housing then FC without housing are out of luck and generates a huge bummer
• Choices, like where you want to be, what you want to put down, size and height of objects, more freedom on objects because the space isn't shared and you can't lore break others on accident lol (so being able to control the weather and sky adding a huge level of control, like underwater sky and a dome object- now your house is an underwater house~~!)
• Potentially much faster development of locations and objects- especially locations, instead of SE having to make an entire ward open and make that server space at once they could re-purpose an area already made or re-purpose assets for people to use in their pocket worlds, like Azim Steppe platform which seems to be a nearly perfect housing spot or giving weathers and objects of the final Shadowbringers zone and letting players create one from their own tools
• Whatever your imagine limits/etc, these examples are why I reference Wildstar a lot since that's an example where people literally did all that, making floating islands, crashed space ships, markets, underground towns, jungles, etc (some other MMORPGs have wild housing too, Rift being similar to Wildstar I just find Wildstar an easy example and like that housing was easily one of the major features that kept it from dying instantly lol- proving that people really loved it).

Some of the features fading in or out depending on how far someone wants to go, some people just want one more floor to their apartment lol. I think stopping so short would be a shame especially with the grand power our characters have and some of the lore we also have, such grand power at our disposal and the best our characters can do is a two floor apartment or desperate house hunting..? I don't think so! lol. I'm going to will power in an entire floating island chocobo farm with my aetherial might by level 90 thank you very much XD.

Personally I believe people who found it enjoyable (that they feel it has neighborhood value to them, not to me, but I believe their own experience), but I also believe the game would have a great benefit from having an (powerful) instanced system and have difficulty thinking this current ward system was for the best for the type of game (theme park) and type of theme (high fantasy, incredible magic / grandiose powers) this game is- which is obviously an opinion but one I am prepared to defend lol. Want to double state though that I've no interest in the wards dying and I think we can have both, we can even have the wards empowered by the new system (like making sure ward users aren't left out of the new power, but not removing their wards either).

+1 for the P.S. at the end

[AngeliouxRein]

@Shougun For me, it just seemed like a poor argument against the wards. If they are dead now then what are the odds that a hub for housing would change that? That's how I was seeing it. I'm not going to act as if I go out of my way to make my ward busy and yea, oftentimes (even with the FC across from me) I am the only one there. But this sort of thing never bothered me about housing, I just simply like seeing all the houses around. Other arguments like saving space for the system I get. It's just the whole argument about wards being dead, didn't seem like a good argument, especially if SE suddenly started paying attention to this thread.

I appreciate the reply though, it gave me a better perspective. And like I said, I am not against the idea of instanced housing. I personally wish the Inn area at the Crystarium was some sort of instanced apartment or something that wasn't just a hotel. And your welcome for the P.S. lol.

[Eldevern]

@AngeliouxRein

I can't talk for everyone but I can at least explain my approach of the housing matters. Let's tryin'

My first grievance is we can lose our house. An instancied system as apartment shows we could avoid that. But that's a minor point.

We can consider there are more or less three categories of players interested in housing :
1. The ones who consider it like a trophy
2. The ones who use it for RP
3. The ones who want to use it as a way to express their creativity.

For the first category, the wards and the neighborood are the ideal, they can "show off".
For the second category, the wards and the neighborood are the ideal because of the immersion feeling
but for the last category, the current system suffer of big lacks.


What are these lacks?
Apartments and house are to little, the comparison with, for example Wildstar, hurts. The current system in FFXIV is far from the current "State of Art"
We can lose house and events items and there's no way to get them back to an NPC's, we are forced to go to the mogstation
We are forced to use glitchs to obtain certain effects without guaranties it will work or last.



I maybe forgot points. But let's talk about "neighborood" feeling. First, I was already in the game when they added housing, then I've seen the evolution.


When it was only an FC's area, the neighborood feeling was so-so.
After the opening to individual, it became worst.
Why?
It's mathematic : there are less players in a wards if they are individual owners rather than FC.
If individuals can own their own house, a significant part of players will use it's own house rather than the FC one especially when they want to be quiet (crafting, for example)


Why I think instancied housing could make neighborood feeling rise?
If you create a shared place, a "centrale" aetheryte with all the shops surrounding this place, more player could meet others. If SE keep the individual etheryte, people who want" escape" the crowd will still be able to do. But if people want to meet other players, centrale aetheryte and marketboard will allow that.


The current ward system will never get more neighborood. I don't ask they delete it but if they consider adding houses, instancied housing is a better way and I tend to consider they should have reserved the wards to FC's and make instancied system for individual.


The mix of FC's houses and individual houses "empty" the wards even more that a FC reserved ward and individual instancied housing would do because FC... are FC : a group of several players that individuals, solo players, are not. If you gather FC houses, it doesn't sound unreasonable to think it would allow to make wards more lively.

That's my thoughts.

[Liam_Harper]

Basically, the people here keep their wards alive by actively inviting people to them for whatever reason. It's not SE's job to keep them active.

It basically is their job as game designers to keep their content active though.

When players have to try to find ways to artificially make dead content active, it's poorly designed. You want content to naturally be fun.
They intentionally chose wards over instanced housing to create a neighborhood feeling (which is really nice), but if no one is interested it's a wasted idea. They should look into adding activities to Wards.

[Maero]

Did you not read this recent opinion that wants to make it all instanced? This is what I'm fighting against.

Which is fine because i would be against that also but i want option of instanced or non instanced so more players have opportunity at housing. Under the current system it is of issue.
It had taken me over 3 years to finally a house so i want others to be able to enjoy it as well

[Eoko]

It basically is their job as game designers to keep their content active though.

I disagree. It's a game's job to give us content. Sometimes it's bad and they ignore it forever because no one likes it or does it only the bare minimum to get a reward, like Lords of Verminion. Sometimes it's so bad pretty much no one touches it ever, like Diadem. Sometimes it's not great, but people keep demanding it, so they keep trying new versions, like PVP.

It is not the developer's job to keep people active and interested in content they made. It is their job to keep trying new content to keep things interesting and listen to feedback. If the feedback can be used to adjust existing content for the better, by all means, they should try it. Forcing people to go to random wards so they don't look like ghost towns isn't going to do anything to make the game or the wards better. If no one is in the zones except to go to their house, the system isn't working.

They should have started with instanced housing and expanded if they had cool, workable ideas. Instead they went with a hugely intensive neighbourhood model that never worked well and taxed them heavily. It would make far, far more sense to have Wards more like Central Parks/Gardens that people logged into like a small, beautiful zone, with ample room to socialize and amazing screen shot and gpose potential. They could have a little stage area, orchards in Gridania, cacti and succulents in Ul'dah, a tropical get away in Limsa. From there you could have instanced housing, with outside space. Heck, you could even have some houses in the "distance" that you can't get to but would randomly show off people's instanced plots that change every day, or 12 hours, or whatever. Add in the "go straight to FC lot", "go straight to _______ party member's lot", and "go to specific lot" and you're aces.

You get a central social area with a purpose and you get the less taxing instanced housing.

[Jojoya]

They should look into adding activities to Wards.

The problem with that is there are so many wards. Put the activities in the wards, and which of the 144 do players choose to go to? There's only so many players online for a world at a time, and they all have something they want to be doing (probably not whatever the housing activity is). If the goal was to make the wards feel populated, the activity ends up failing to do it unless the players all agree to go to the same 2 or 3 wards - and that makes the other wards feel that much emptier.

Getting players to visit the wards really relies on the players who live in those wards so the other players will be present when they are.