whats the point of having categories in PF if lots of people are going to mis-list?

[Vidu]

The people advertising their statics or "other services" will always use what is top of the list. If they put "others" at the top of the list, do we think the complaints would actually go away? Everyone has a different opinion of what should be the priority category and ultimately people will still whinge regardless.

Well, yes and no - people will always find something to complain about, but unless they use the argument of "people shouldnt miss-list their static recrutments (or whatever else they're holding a grudge against)" is just a front for "I dont wanna see[listing I dont want to see] at all in the PF" those complaints will go away...
Sadly though, I assume you're right and they dont care so much about certain listings being in the wrong category and more about them being in PF at all.

However I still think having specific categories for static and FC-recrutment would be a good idea - not because complaints like this would go away but to give those kind of "groups" a proper gathering place. As of now I see static recrutments in the "other"-tab aswell as listed as groups for any Savage-tier and sometimes even Ex-primals. I dont have an issue with seeing those groups, but I always feel like if someone is looking for a static/FC wouldnt it be nice if they could just open the one tab dedicated for that and look through all of the groups there? Instead of having to filter through several categories in which not even all parties are looking for static-members.

[SerLuke]

Well, yes and no - people will always find something to complain about, but unless they use the argument of "people shouldnt miss-list their static recrutments (or whatever else they're holding a grudge against)" is just a front for "I dont wanna see[listing I dont want to see] at all in the PF" those complaints will go away...
Sadly though, I assume you're right and they dont care so much about certain listings being in the wrong category and more about them being in PF at all.

However I still think having specific categories for static and FC-recrutment would be a good idea - not because complaints like this would go away but to give those kind of "groups" a proper gathering place. As of now I see static recrutments in the "other"-tab aswell as listed as groups for any Savage-tier and sometimes even Ex-primals. I dont have an issue with seeing those groups, but I always feel like if someone is looking for a static/FC wouldnt it be nice if they could just open the one tab dedicated for that and look through all of the groups there? Instead of having to filter through several categories in which not even all parties are looking for static-members.

Thank you for speaking for me as well as for the personal attacks against my character and baseless assumptions, if these listings were put under “none” or if proper listings were created and actually used, I wouldn’t care at all if they were there.

[Vidu]

Thank you for speaking for me as well as for the personal attacks against my character and baseless assumptions, if these listings were put under “none” or if proper listings were created and actually used, I wouldn’t care at all if they were there.

...who said I was speaking about you? Or for you, for that matter...

My assumptions are also based on constantly seeing threads requesting that clear-selling should be banned etc. - there has just been a thread last week and if you want to make my statment about yourself I'll mention that you displayed a dislike for clear sells in said thread.
But I'll continue my reasoning using a general "you" here: Seeing how people express a dislike for clear sells and want them banned from the PF alltogether its not that farfetched to assume a certain hidden agenda with requests like this being mainly targeted against clear selling, just going about it another way round.

Let me ask you this (this part is directed at you specifically now): Whats the difference between seeing a party in PF that you wont join because its a clear-sell and one you wont join because its looking for an ilvl of 470, a job you dont play or asks that you have enrage-exp when you dont? Both are parties you have no intrest in joining. Both fill up your PF-window. Why does one bother you and the other one doesnt?
And how would removing filters - like the categories - make anything better? What would that accomplish? Maybe there would be less people using a roulette-PF to advertise a clear or less people setting up E4S-groups when they're really looking for static member and not a straight away run - but how would that make it easier for you to use the PF to find the groups you're intrested in?

[SerLuke]

...who said I was speaking about you? Or for you, for that matter...

My assumptions are also based on constantly seeing threads requesting that clear-selling should be banned etc. - there has just been a thread last week and if you want to make my statment about yourself I'll mention that you displayed a dislike for clear sells in said thread.
But I'll continue my reasoning using a general "you" here: Seeing how people express a dislike for clear sells and want them banned from the PF alltogether its not that farfetched to assume a certain hidden agenda with requests like this being mainly targeted against clear selling, just going about it another way round.

Let me ask you this (this part is directed at you specifically now): Whats the difference between seeing a party in PF that you wont join because its a clear-sell and one you wont join because its looking for an ilvl of 470, a job you dont play or asks that you have enrage-exp when you dont? Both are parties you have no intrest in joining. Both fill up your PF-window. Why does one bother you and the other one doesnt?
And how would removing filters - like the categories - make anything better? What would that accomplish? Maybe there would be less people using a roulette-PF to advertise a clear or less people setting up E4S-groups when they're really looking for static member and not a straight away run - but how would that make it easier for you to use the PF to find the groups you're intrested in?

The difference is they don't use an unrelated listing to get themselves up at the top and clog up the PF when you first open it up. Another solution to this would be allowing filters to be saved by default, I shouldn't have to set a filter every time I want to use party finder to see what things people are looking for just because someone thinks their clear selling or static business or whatever deserves to be at the top of the list. Obviously I don't want categories removed, I was using a bit of hyperbole to demonstrate a point, I merely want them used correctly or at least a way to save filters so that I don't have to filter out mis-listed statics/clear sells every time I log in.

And on the topic of clear sells, if someone is selling clears for gil I would have zero problems with them listing that as long as its not being intentionally mislisted. Its the "we must discuss payment over Discord only!" PFs that are shady.

[Vidu]

The difference is they don't use an unrelated listing to get themselves up at the top and clog up the PF when you first open it up. Another solution to this would be allowing filters to be saved by default, I shouldn't have to set a filter every time I want to use party finder to see what things people are looking for just because someone thinks their clear selling or static business or whatever deserves to be at the top of the list. Obviously I don't want categories removed, I was using a bit of hyperbole to demonstrate a point, I merely want them used correctly or at least a way to save filters so that I don't have to filter out mis-listed statics/clear sells every time I log in.

And on the topic of clear sells, if someone is selling clears for gil I would have zero problems with them listing that as long as its not being intentionally mislisted. Its the "we must discuss payment over Discord only!" PFs that are shady.

So... you'd agree that adding a category for statics would be a good idea? Because currently they cant put their listing into a proper category - they're stuck with the very vague "other" where everyone can put everything and people intrested in a static have to dig through crafting services, FC-recrutments and well, other stuff. Yesterday it had a question about how to get jet black dye.

If you want to improve or change a system its best to look at where the problems might stem from and adress that - its no surprise a static will recrut ne members by putting up a PF for the tier they're currently at. Having one tab that caters to statics presenting their recrutment would solve that problem way better than any hyperbole =P

[Shurrikhan]

Just scroll past the ones that aren't relevant to your needs at the time.

The point of having categories is because the vast majority of people use it correctly, both when recruiting and searching.



The people advertising their statics or "other services" will always use what is top of the list. If they put "others" at the top of the list, do we think the complaints would actually go away? Everyone has a different opinion of what should be the priority category and ultimately people will still whinge regardless.

Then the solution turns to just being able to resort the categories for ourselves or hide them individually, rather than seeing (1) just one category at a time or (2) all of them in a rigid order.

An improvement -- i.e. a (Static) Recruitment page -- is still an improvement, even if it isn't going to comprehensively remove every issue.

[SerLuke]

So... you'd agree that adding a category for statics would be a good idea? Because currently they cant put their listing into a proper category - they're stuck with the very vague "other" where everyone can put everything and people intrested in a static have to dig through crafting services, FC-recrutments and well, other stuff. Yesterday it had a question about how to get jet black dye.

If you want to improve or change a system its best to look at where the problems might stem from and adress that - its no surprise a static will recrut ne members by putting up a PF for the tier they're currently at. Having one tab that caters to statics presenting their recrutment would solve that problem way better than any hyperbole =P

As long as they are actually utilized yes I agree of course I would hope with the creation of such SE would actually start to require people use the correct listings instead of just trying to get to the top of PF.

[Vidu]

As long as they are actually utilized yes I agree of course I would hope with the creation of such SE would actually start to require people use the correct listings instead of just trying to get to the top of PF.

Requiring it is a tricky thing to do, though - you can hardly make it a reportable offense to wrongly list your PF, since thats something that can merely happen my accident aswell as looking a bit of potential grey areas to me (Is a PF thats looking for a dps for E1-4 for the evening and that gets listed under E4 to ensure the only someone whos cleared all of them will join wrongly listed since its not for a group going straight into E4?).

At the same time, listing in the wrong category is also something potentially hurtful to the person looking - while the PF doesnt save your settings permanently it does remember which category you were looking at if you've opend it at least once after logging in. Currently there are 3 static-listings under "roulette" in my PF, looking for people to do savage, but I'll never see them because everytime I open my PF it jumps right to Ex-primals/Savage. So yes, in theory those PFs are at the top of the list if you look at the tab that includes all PFs - in reality those people also have a good chance of missing out on being seen by a lot of people doing Savage, because they're listed elsewhere.
So, I'd say the two cancel each other out - their miss-listing might put them at the top of the general list, but at the same time they dont appear at all anymore for those of us who only look at the difficult content tab. They're only at the top when you look at all PFs - and the PF will remember your tab-filter for the day.

[RoyalBeef]

People really start going out of their way to feel incovenienced now

[SaberMaxwell]

I spent more time reading this thread than I ever have reading advertisement party finders.