Balance, Homogenisation and Encounter Design: The Problem.

[Dzian]

You don't need to be in a party to socialize

Generally you kinda do. Socializing to many people means doing things with other people. and in xivs context that generally means being part of a group.

Seperating into multiple parties isn't really socialising either ts segregation. if you and 8 or 9 of your friends all got together and went to a restaurant for a meal would you split up into 2 or 3 groups or would you have 1 big table for the whole group?

XIV is much the same. if 5 of you want to go and do something together what do you do? do 4 of you go do expert and exclude the 5th? of you go with some random pugs to fill the group that might have there own agendas that dont mesh with your goals.

XIV is much the same this is why people have wanted FC content since early beta's. content that wholegroups of people can be a part of and take part in. that was one of the ideas behind the old concept of FC's having the power to summon primals. and it's that kind of group interaction and team work that people have wanted for a long time.

it's been a long standing complaint that it's impossible to include everyone in things because there's nothing to do. the closest thing to fitting content would be canals/aquopolis with its flexible party sizes but even thats limited.

It's not sociable if a player has to leave a group of friends in order to progresss in a quest. sociable would beif that palyer and his friends could actually go do that whole quest together. rahter than each of them having to do it alone...

how often do players leave free companies because they dont feel a part of the group? how can they when it's impossible to include them..

recent example of personal experience was when HoH came out and 5 of us wanted to static it.... ummmmm?

[linay]

Generally you kinda do. Socializing to many people means doing things with other people. and in xivs context that generally means being part of a group.

Seperating into multiple parties isn't really socialising either ts segregation. if you and 8 or 9 of your friends all got together and went to a restaurant for a meal would you split up into 2 or 3 groups or would you have 1 big table for the whole group?

XIV is much the same. if 5 of you want to go and do something together what do you do? do 4 of you go do expert and exclude the 5th? of you go with some random pugs to fill the group that might have there own agendas that dont mesh with your goals.

XIV is much the same this is why people have wanted FC content since early beta's. content that wholegroups of people can be a part of and take part in. that was one of the ideas behind the old concept of FC's having the power to summon primals. and it's that kind of group interaction and team work that people have wanted for a long time.

it's been a long standing complaint that it's impossible to include everyone in things because there's nothing to do. the closest thing to fitting content would be canals/aquopolis with its flexible party sizes but even thats limited.

It's not sociable if a player has to leave a group of friends in order to progresss in a quest. sociable would beif that palyer and his friends could actually go do that whole quest together. rahter than each of them having to do it alone...

how often do players leave free companies because they dont feel a part of the group? how can they when it's impossible to include them..

recent example of personal experience was when HoH came out and 5 of us wanted to static it.... ummmmm?

So it's only socializing if all the people get to do it together at the same time? What if HoH can be done with 5 people and there are 6 of you? What if raids can be done with 40 people and there are 45 of you? Sometimes some people will be left out unless every content can be done with flexible party size, but that doesn't mean the game is anti-social.

[Dzian]

So it's only socializing if all the people get to do it together at the same time? What if HoH can be done with 5 people and there are 6 of you? What if raids can be done with 40 people and there are 45 of you? Sometimes some people will be left out unless every content can be done with flexible party size, but that doesn't mean the game is anti-social.

The point i was aiming to make is many people play games especially MMO's to play with other people and do things together with there friends..

Of course not everything has to be able to include everyone but at the same time there should always be options that allow everyone to be included.

when 3 - 4 of you aredoing the same msq quests atthe same time why not be allowed to do them together. a lot of people would find it much more fun sharing the experience with friends.. where as doing it alone at the same time other people are doingiot alone just isnt the same..

This is why people have wanted FC content since the dawen of time (or time as far as ARR is concerend)

[linay]

I meant there's no point in there being multiple jobs of the same role in the game. If the jobs are "Tank", "Healer", "Caster", "Melee dps", and "Physical ranged dps" then no one needs to level multiple jobs to be able to participate in top content either. And if the differences between the jobs are only cosmetic, then they may as well condense it down to that level.

I know what you meant, but some people choose a job simply for the aesthetics, so there is always a point to have multiple jobs even within the same role, not to mention with different roles.

The point i was aiming to make is many people play games especially MMO's to play with other people and do things together with there friends..

Of course not everything has to be able to include everyone but at the same time there should always be options that allow everyone to be included.

when 3 - 4 of you aredoing the same msq quests atthe same time why not be allowed to do them together. a lot of people would find it much more fun sharing the experience with friends.. where as doing it alone at the same time other people are doingiot alone just isnt the same..

This is why people have wanted FC content since the dawen of time (or time as far as ARR is concerend)

I get that, but it's one thing to want the game to accommodate people doing more things together, which I would support, and another to say the game is anti-social because it doesn't have more of those accommodations, which I would disagree.

[ParadoxHealer]

It is so frustrating that everything has become focused on Raids and what is necessary for that content, that jobs are being homogenized and changed so that there are no discrepancies between the jobs. Changes to healers and other jobs have made a majority of the content less exciting. What is the point of a class that is only exciting to play for a small portion of the content? Also, why do you have to have a perfect group for a specific set of numbers for raid content? To me the content is more exciting with a level of unpredictability; that is the point of a MMORPG, you are playing with other people and DO NOT control everything. Excluding people because of the jobs they play. Why even have multiple jobs if they all end up being the same? Healers have become very boring due to the changes and lack of individuality with the jobs. I hardly see MU's in dungeons any more, especially RDM and SMN. I hope the people who are so focused on the perfect raid group are happy because I know a ton of people who play for the broader portion of the content and are not. I loved the storyline of the expansion, but I feel like I am watching this game go downhill just like SWTOR, Perfect World, and other games where everything gets made more simplistic and homogenized.

[linay]

It is so frustrating that everything has become focused on Raids and what is necessary for that content, that jobs are being homogenized and changed so that there are no discrepancies between the jobs. Changes to healers and other jobs have made a majority of the content less exciting. What is the point of a class that is only exciting to play for a small portion of the content? Also, why do you have to have a perfect group for a specific set of numbers for raid content? To me the content is more exciting with a level of unpredictability; that is the point of a MMORPG, you are playing with other people and DO NOT control everything. Excluding people because of the jobs they play. Why even have multiple jobs if they all end up being the same? Healers have become very boring due to the changes and lack of individuality with the jobs. I hardly see MU's in dungeons any more, especially RDM and SMN. I hope the people who are so focused on the perfect raid group are happy because I know a ton of people who play for the broader portion of the content and are not. I loved the storyline of the expansion, but I feel like I am watching this game go downhill just like SWTOR, Perfect World, and other games where everything gets made more simplistic and homogenized.

The part in bold is a big reason why.

[CapricaLangley]

The part in bold is a big reason why.

If people are really being locked out of duties because of the job they play, I think we have to blame disfunctioning social features and not class balance. I mean, that's what FCs and Linkshells were made in the first place. The duty finder was a great addiction, but it's because of it if we have to deal with these situations. We are in a MMO after all.

[Sloprano]

Getting a touch of WoW classic again and knowing there is no tomes to collect, daily roulettes or weekly tokens is extremely refreshing and relaxing. From interviews I recall it has been mentioned several times that SE want to stick to a strict schedule for patches, that might also cover new dungeons so you will always know what to expect. Which is a virtue in itself, yet for my part I feel they designed themselves into a corner where you are encouraged to run roulettes for tomes and helping out people doing them first time, not because you wanted to run that particular dungeon. So wish would be for them to go away with the dailies, make the dungeons themselves be the destination. Redesigning layout from bottom up might be a challenge, it wouldn't need to be more than adding in a couple interesting mobs that have time to get off some dangerous attack if not dodged/handled properly and add a chance for interesting, random loot to side parts. Dungeons would take longer and they'd readjust the XP gain based on your current level before sync. So they'd stop putting the rewards at the end of it, instead have them inside it. I want to load into Sastasha and suddenly see a chimera roaming the caves, but also knowing it has a chance of dropping a minion, glamour or rare crafting mats if we kill it. Or when we reach the tavern we know there is a chest that randomly spawns in one of the side rooms that reward items AND xp. Basicly mesh their fantastic level designers with the Deep Dungeon mechanics plus extra rewards dotted around.

This and going back to the drawing board for job balances and skill availability at lower levels. Logos actions was a great idea, let us use them outside Eureka in all the dungeons and fates, balanced for pure fun and havoc. Every job is loaded with a wide variety attack and support skills of varying usefulness all on the "OP" end of the spectrum and most importantly fits thematically and asthetically to the class and job. Then give a seperate skillset for Savage/Ultimate where it's balanced by the numbers like they do with PvP skills. I'd wish it wasn't the case, but it really seems like they are hypertuning every potency on the skills for the scripted fights found at the endgame.

To me the content is more exciting with a level of unpredictability; that is the point of a MMORPG, you are playing with other people and DO NOT control everything.

I loved the storyline of the expansion, but I feel like I am watching this game go downhill just like SWTOR, Perfect World, and other games where everything gets made more simplistic and homogenized.

I know the feeling. Getting a full group with friends on whatever job they want to bring is still fun, not caring if we'll clear or not, but then we're doing Leveling on 50+ jobs and everyone goes "No way, it's Sastasha. Again!" For all we know this is the direction SE wants to take the game and they have own telemetries support that game is going better than ever. Still like the game myself, but it's getting harder to do so. If anything is stopping them from doing something at all beyond raiding balance I'd wish they'd let us know.

[Edax]

I loved the storyline of the expansion, but I feel like I am watching this game go downhill just like SWTOR, Perfect World, and other games where everything gets made more simplistic and homogenized.

I don't think homogenization is what caused SWTOR to go downhill. It certainly wasn't the reason I left SWTOR several times.