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  1. #91
    Player
    Absimiliard's Avatar
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    Jul 2014
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    2,031
    Character
    Cassius Rex
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by YianKutku View Post
    They do not. Well, they run off aether, but so does everyone and everything else.

    Auspices come to be when an animal lives for a surprisingly long time and gains sapience and superpowers, and it is never explained why certain animals manage to do so. They are only worshipped after the fact, sometimes to their detriment. One could perhaps speculate that the "belief" in question is the belief in the concept of auspices in general, which somehow leads to a consensus reality situation where auspices occur because people believe auspices will occur, but that is again unsupported speculation and not confirmed by any source.
    The auspices are believed to take on their transformed states by drawing a massive amount of aether from their surroundings. These unique forms, while static in appearance once achieved, are believed to have been initially shaped by a combination of the auspices' will, beliefs, and emotions. This obviously does not operate identically to primals, but it is at least similar enough to where it should not be immediately dismissed as unrelated. As for their attaining sapience in the first place, that is indeed a mystery. We do know, however, that it isn't just animals that can become auspices. After all, Soroban is a Kojin.
    (1)
    Last edited by Absimiliard; 08-23-2019 at 12:49 PM.

  2. #92
    Player
    RopeDrink's Avatar
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    Aug 2016
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    566
    Character
    Chloe Redstone
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    In short, the empire goes nuts, Black Rose becomes a prominent threat in our timeline despite it being altered in the other one, we get informed of the reappearance of a certain blond psychopath, Elidibus complicates it all by throwing WoL's at the WoL, we get to see one of the 'gods-after-a-fashion' getting tortured, maimed or drained by Blondie McStabbysword, and despite it all, we have to provide some 'stoic nods' before being sent on a fetch quest to collect some drivel for Tataru who's probably crying over a Scion that was hunted down in their sleep by either Blondie Stab or the ElidiWoL's. Jokes aside, I really do expect this to happen - nothing would cause more concern for them right now other than being trapped on the first while their vulnerable bodies are stuck on the Source with the above shenanigans going on and learning that one of them was essentially murdered in their bed.

    Regarding previous discussion:
    It was always clear to me how Aulus was a somewhat shamed scientist for taking a rather different approach to matters and that Zenos took him under his wing for his super-secret-project-of-much-awesomesauce, hence Resonant (or anything associated with it) was never widely known to begin with and not shared with the Empire as a whole. As evidenced by practically every scene in SB featuring Mr.BlondePsycho, even if there were more than just Aulus working on the project, they would have been run more out of fear rather than dedication or loyalty to either him or the Empire - and by the time a result was even met, Ala Mhigo was liberated and pretty much everyone remotely tied to that angle was either killed or had their story wrapped up.

    As for present events, Zenos has no interest in the throne thus he'll likely wander off to do Nasty McEvil things, like pay the Scion's prone carcasses a visit while they're off on the First in their not-really-sleeping state. Estinien (having already saved the WoL in a similar fashion) will either save Gaius and/or serve as our narration as to what happened after the epilogue. Gaius being in trouble after the event is a safe assumption. I mean, irony aside (ARR Garlean big-bad vs SB Garlean big-bad), nobody is going to bank on Gaius besting Zenos in any way. The most predictable route would be to have Gaius lose and either be saved by Estinien, so Estinien/Gaius escape > informs Scions/Alliance/WoL while the Empire descends into chaos.

    I've said it before and will say it again - just because Grah prevented his timeline version of the Black Rose debacle does not mean it won't happen in a different manner in our present. I fully expect Black Rose to be unleashed (regardless of waning potency) and cause all kinds of trouble. I also won't be in the least bit surprised if it's Zenos who does it, despite his words in the epilogue. He's the right amount of psychotic to consider it if he's certain his true target won't be affected. I can imagine the Scions getting smoked out of hiding by it in a big to coax the WoL back from the First, or a desperate Empire at the mercy of a losing battle against the Alliance throwing it out as a last resort.
    (0)

  3. #93
    Player Theodric's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    10,051
    Character
    Matthieu Desrosiers
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    Insofar as Black Rose is concerned, it was only used as a last resort and the consequences were unintended. It was less a case of Garlemald going 'nuts' and a consequence of Garlemald's enemies going too far. The Eorzean Alliance and Eastern Alliance assaulted Garlemald's inner territories from two directions - which is an act that would result in a lot of chaos and death.

    Assuming that those unintended consequences have been negated, it'd be rather strange for the use of chemical weapons to be seen as so terrible and unforgivable in a setting where it is considering to be perfectly fine to inflict magical diseases on one's foes or brutally incinerate them with conjured flames.

    It's rather tiresome to see it considered 'fine' for Hien to condemn enemy combatants to a watery grave and Omega being summoned being a 'grim necessity' but when Garlemald does something to defend itself and its people it is considered to be inexcusable. So hopefully if Black Rose is used it will be handled with nuance. Admittedly, I haven't been particularly impressed with the way in which the 'war' story-line has been written so far. I was hoping it would be over and done with already so we could go and explore Garlemald for ourselves and learn more of its people, its culture and make peace. Much as we did with Ishgard which was also a controversial, isolated and war consumed nation.
    (2)
    Last edited by Theodric; 08-23-2019 at 02:37 PM.

  4. #94
    Player
    Erendis's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    Gridania
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    1,347
    Character
    E'renndis Harper
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 100
    Just wait till Black Rose is accidentally released in Garlemald and history takes a completely different turn...
    (2)

  5. #95
    Player Theodric's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    10,051
    Character
    Matthieu Desrosiers
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Erendis View Post
    Just wait till Black Rose is accidentally released in Garlemald and history takes a completely different turn...
    I'd be disappointed if that were the 'twist', but I'm readying myself for it happening. The aesthetics used for Amaurot were very similar to what I expected to see in Garlemald. I wouldn't be surprised if Garlemald received the FFXV treatment and ends up being reduced to a wasteland. Especially with someone like Zenos as the remaining leader figure. Gaius is likely to survive and will probably clean up the mess. There's also Maxima...but he's just another apologetic defector these days instead of the 'Larsa' figure many wished for him to be.
    (2)
    Last edited by Theodric; 08-23-2019 at 03:18 PM.

  6. #96
    Player
    Lauront's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Amaurot
    Posts
    4,449
    Character
    Tristain Archambeau
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Erendis View Post
    Just wait till Black Rose is accidentally released in Garlemald and history takes a completely different turn...
    Given how it spreads, it would not remain contained there. Particularly if the corrupted Light continues to seep into the Source. It’d be a pretty lame conclusion for Garlemald, though, if they destroyed it that way just to avoid taking us there.
    (2)
    When the game's story becomes self-aware:


  7. #97
    Player
    Erendis's Avatar
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    Gridania
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    E'renndis Harper
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 100
    Not sure how much time has passed since last known time when Black Rose was used and how much Light increased since then. If the change is little, the effect should be approximately the same as the case we saw. It seemed that BR did not spread from the site it was used at and lost its potency quite fast since it had no effect on Gaius et al when they arrived (Do not recall if the time between BR usage and their arrival was stated, but it did not seem longer than a few days).
    (0)

  8. #98
    Player
    Lauront's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
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    Amaurot
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    4,449
    Character
    Tristain Archambeau
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 90
    Black Rose was not deployed as yet in the plot (there were experimental usages of it, with lasting effects on the wildlife it was used on), as that plot point takes place in the alternative timeline, i.e. some point shortly afterwards in the future, had the Exarch not "kidnapped" you. So when Gaius etc. arrive it has not been used. The alternative timeline's use of it is as Theodric described - the Empire became increasingly desperate as the ranks closed on it but was unaware of how far-reaching its consequences would be given the excess of Light.

    I'll agree with RopeDrink that Zenos is probably going to use it if it serves his ends - the Empire as such may not interest him but as a tool to realise his goals? That's a different story. I still think they're setting him up for a huge fall, though - both Hydaelyn and Zodiark, even at a fraction of their former power, are leagues ahead of any Primal we've ever encountered, nevermind the manifestation of some man's rage given form through Nidhogg's aether. Shinryu was ultimately a fledgling Primal, and though powerful, I think Zenos is soon going to learn the difference between an entity like Hydaelyn or Zodiark, and some such lesser Primal.
    (2)
    When the game's story becomes self-aware:


  9. #99
    Player
    Erendis's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    Gridania
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    1,347
    Character
    E'renndis Harper
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lauront View Post
    Black Rose was not deployed as yet in the plot

    Even if it was a small scale, it was used and my point still stands.
    (3)

  10. #100
    Player Theodric's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    10,051
    Character
    Matthieu Desrosiers
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    If I recall correctly, it was used by Elidibus' order rather than Varis'. Much in the same way that Elidibus went behind Varis' back to manipulate events to bring forth Tsukuyomi. At the time of its use, though, it did appear to have a diluted effect.

    It still doesn't sit well with me that it is painted as so abhorrent, though. Tactically it makes sense to use such a weapon to minimise losses. That aside, Garleans cannot - with some exceptions - make use of aether and as such need ways to bridge the gap when it comes to dealing with their foes. The likes of Alphinaud can screech and drool in an effort to paint Black Rose as some terrible weapon, though realistically it isn't any worse than searing someone with flames, shooting them in the face or inflicting magical diseases upon them. All of which are tactics employed by Eorzea's forces.

    Black Rose, when not accounting for the unintended consequences, actually leaves the corpses of enemies intact. The same cannot be said of Hien's flooding of Doma Castle, which would have realistically led to a very painful and cruel death for any enemy combatant caught in the water. Clad in armour and clothing as many were, escaping would not have been easy - and since large pieces of debris can be seen being swept up in the water, it can be inferred that those unlucky enough to be in the path of the water would have found their bodies crushed and broken in addition to the painful act of drowning.

    In short, I consider the writing surrounding Black Rose to be dubious. Introducing rules of engagement in a fantasy setting is tricky in the first place, though it's hard to take them seriously when they are only conveniently applied to one side. As an aside, I'd also point out that Varis was never shown to take pleasure in having to use such methods to deal with his enemies - but the likes of Hien, Lyse and even the Warrior of Light routinely fist pump and cheer at the suggestion that they should go and fight Garleans (or some other threat) that have been portrayed as not being a 'black or white' struggle.

    I think it says a lot that Black Rose was only used as a last resort in the alternate timeline. I just wonder if the writers are bold enough to show that liberating all of Ilsabard isn't a wise move, as the whole reason Garlemald came to be in the first place is due to their ancestors being driven out of fertile territory and forced to live in a frigid wasteland. It isn't reasonable to free every region that Garlemald controls and expect the Garleans to make do with only that wasteland. They need fertile land to actually live a meaningful existence, after all.

    To me, it suggests that the Eorzean Alliance and Eastern Alliance are not after peace but rather vengeance. Which, whilst understandable to a degree, does little to endear them to me.
    (1)
    Last edited by Theodric; 08-24-2019 at 06:22 AM.

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