fate of emperor varis at the end

[TankHunter678]

Every time I get Praetorium in MSQ roulette I'm reminded of this plot point and how nothing has came of it so far. Laha and Elidibus have both justified their actions as maintaining the balance between Light and Dark, which doesn't exactly seem truthful considering how weak Hydaelyn has become and not to mention they are Ascians, the servants of the Dark.

The fact that this wasn't mentioned once in Shadowbringers by Emet makes me think that the writers changed their mind and decided to abandon the idea. If we defeat Zodiark, it may well end up being handwaved as Ascian lies.

Ascians only care about Balance on the source which needs to not get turned into a void. They want the shards to be unbalanced but not to the point of flood for the rejoinings to work.

[LineageRazor]

Our understanding of The Twelve is that they are essentially just glorified primals. Possessing no lives or wills of their own; their objectives, abilities, personalities, and even appearances are shaped entirely by the beliefs of those whose prayers gave them life.

Correction: That is the GARLEANS understanding of The Twelve, and fervent atheist Gaius is only too happy to arrogantly pronounce "YOUR GODDO IS SHIIIIIIT!!!". The residents of Eorzea, on the other hand, consider them to be real and true gods - including learned and respected individuals such as Louisoix. And we as players? The jury is still out. Certainly it's possible to fashion a primal in the SHAPE of one of the Twelve - but that doesn't mean that the Twelve cannot be real deities, as well. Shiva was a real person, but that didn't stop Ysayle from creating her Primal. Same with the Allagan Commander Garuda.

This is a fantasy world, and honest-to-god (pun intended) deities are a possibility that is always on the table. I give about even odds that the game eventually gives a "mundane origin story" that reveals that the Twelve are just legends of long-gone real people, or that they instead leave them mysterious and inscrutable for the entire lifetime of the game (e.g., "Are they real? YOU decide!").

[Kokomi]

Ascians only care about Balance on the source which needs to not get turned into a void. They want the shards to be unbalanced but not to the point of flood for the rejoinings to work.

I was talking about this speech from Lahabrea:

The growing imbalance afflicting the planet must be redressed. If it is permitted to worsen, the very laws of existence - both aetheric and physical - will be warped beyond all recognition. Know you the root of this corruption? Hydaelyn! Like a parasite, She must be burned out if the planet is to recover.

In retrospect, he seems to be implying that Hydaelyn is the one that is tipping the balance of the elements when we know that it is the Ascians who are doing this to create rejoinings. Of course we could also just dismiss this as the rantings of a crazed Ascian.

[Absimiliard]

Correction: That is the GARLEANS understanding of The Twelve

Louisoix had the same belief.

In retrospect, he seems to be implying that Hydaelyn is the one that is tipping the balance of the elements when we know that it is the Ascians who are doing this to create rejoinings. Of course we could also just dismiss this as the rantings of a crazed Ascian.

Lahabrea was definitely nuts, but it's most likely too early to dismiss his claims entirely. Things like that generally have at least a grain of truth buried somewhere amidst the refuse. We've already seen what can happen when the scales tip too far in favor of Light. What's more, it is implied on multiple occasions that the Source was headed for the same fate because of the Warrior of Light. While we can't ascertain whether or not it was intentional (my guess is not since she sent Minfilia to save the First from their Flood of Light), it does appear Hydaelyn was putting the Source at risk by constantly compelling (or entreating, for those that don't subscribe to the possibility of there being some level of tempering at play) her champion to fight.

[Edax]

Lahabrea was definitely nuts, but it's most likely too early to dismiss his claims entirely. Things like that generally have at least a grain of truth buried somewhere amidst the refuse. We've already seen what can happen when the scales tip too far in favor of Light. What's more, it is implied on multiple occasions that the Source was headed for the same fate because of the Warrior of Light. While we can't ascertain whether or not it was intentional (my guess is not since she sent Minfilia to save the First from their Flood of Light), it does appear Hydaelyn was putting the Source at risk by constantly compelling (or entreating, for those that don't subscribe to the possibility of there being some level of tempering at play) her champion to fight.

Logically though, it makes no sense for Lahabrea to explain all this to the person he intends to immediately kill if it were true.

[Cilia]

Logically though, it makes no sense for Lahabrea to explain all this to the person he intends to immediately kill if it were true.

He told us because he was about to kill us. There's no harm in mouthing off at someone about to die.

Lahabrea was a villain, after all, and they love hearing the sound of their own voices.

[Hezzlocks]

Louisoix had the same belief.



Lahabrea was definitely nuts, but it's most likely too early to dismiss his claims entirely. Things like that generally have at least a grain of truth buried somewhere amidst the refuse. We've already seen what can happen when the scales tip too far in favor of Light. What's more, it is implied on multiple occasions that the Source was headed for the same fate because of the Warrior of Light. While we can't ascertain whether or not it was intentional (my guess is not since she sent Minfilia to save the First from their Flood of Light), it does appear Hydaelyn was putting the Source at risk by constantly compelling (or entreating, for those that don't subscribe to the possibility of there being some level of tempering at play) her champion to fight.

That putting the source at the same risk was probably far more the Ascians fault than Hydaelyns. Remember the lesson on rejoinings, when a shard is overly abundant with aether of a specific alignment, it begins to bleed off that aether straight to the source. A lot of the phenomena witnessed in the source pre ShB was directly referenced and attributed to the First bleeding over Light infused aether to the Source.

Given that the flood seems to have been an accident, it makes full sense that Elidibus would be concerned that your successes in addition to the light being bled over would be putting the source at risk, and thus wishes to correct that issue, either by your death, or by ushering in the rejoining via calamity. He has tried doing both a few times.

By fixing the first, we should also be correcting the imbalance on the source. Obviously not in the way the Ascians want it, and Elidibus clearly seems fixated on killing the WoL considering he's prioritizing that over dealing with the latest and probably greatest complication to his plan, Zenos, but the balance should be brought back in line enough to prevent a flood on the source.

[Iscah]

We've already seen what can happen when the scales tip too far in favor of Light. What's more, it is implied on multiple occasions that the Source was headed for the same fate because of the Warrior of Light. While we can't ascertain whether or not it was intentional, it does appear Hydaelyn was putting the Source at risk by constantly compelling her champion to fight.

I think those implications that "Hydaelyn's command to fight the Ascians is putting the Source at risk" were a result of what we previously understood from the WoD arc: they killed the Ascian overlord of their world and triggered the flood, therefore if we did the same thing here, the same thing would happen.

The truth as shown in Shadowbringers is considerably different. The flood and the imbalance that caused it were due to Ascian meddling in the first place, and the balance tipped over the edge because they failed to account for how Ardbert would react.

The destabilising of aether on the Source was due to the Ascians meddling on the First, not a disconnected sign that something was wrong with the Source because of our heroic actions.

Perhaps most importantly, the Ascians aren't some supernatural embodiment of Darkness (as we might have previously assumed), without which the world will be overrun by Light. They're just people, in the end, however powerful they are.

[LineageRazor]

Louisoix had the same belief.

Where is there any evidence of that? The guy had the symbol of Thaliak on his staff - that's a pretty strong indicator that he is a religious man.

Louisoix DID recognize the danger of the peoples' prayers and the high levels of Aether in accidentally summoning Primal versions of the Twelve during Bahamut's descent - but that in no way indicates that he believes the Twelve are not gods. The leaders of Eorzea recognized a similar danger when the dissidents at Ala Mhigo were planning on summoning a Primal version of Rhalgr - and even Gaius himself believes that those leaders believe in the Twelve (hence why they are weak, "looking for guidance from a higher power").

Understanding that prayers and aether can bring a Primal into being does not mean that one cannot have faith in gods. All it means is that one recognizes that false gods - primals - can be created in the likenesses of the true gods, and that such a thing should be avoided.

Gaius believes that there are no true gods, that they are nothing more than legends upon which Primals can be constructed. Because of this, he felt that atheism - specifically, having the people put faith into strong rulers rather than nebulous and ethereal gods - would put an end to the Primal menace (and, indeed, this was a tenet of the Garlean empire in general). Unfortunately, this is not the case. Faith doesn't need to be toward a god to produce a Primal - the existence of Eureka, a Primal created by the Allagans' faith in SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, shows that this is not true. Faith toward a strong ruler would be no different - with enough devotion, there's no reason why a people couldn't wind up summoning a Primal version of their glorious leader.

[Absimiliard]

Where is there any evidence of that?

https://www.finalfantasyxiv.com/anni...?rgn=na&lng=en Right here. Louisoix clearly states his opinion on the Twelve in this entry.

There is zero evidence at this time of actual gods existing within the world of FFXIV. The one entity that was originally presented in a manner that all but confirmed its godhood has been revealed as just an excessively powerful primal. Even the Kami are shown to be little more than the product of aether and belief.