Bots are rampant on Spriggan (EU)

[KeaneR]

It's not just the RMT bots. There are a huge number of players using bots for crafting and gathering.

Being, along with many others, someone who spent hours, legitimately levelling crafters and gatherers and a lot more gathering and crafting, it's soul destroying to see botting players taking over the markets.

[iWaRTuRTLeS]

How hard is it for se to search bots on google to see whos the top botting programs and have them crack these bots to bann people?

[Limiloo]

There was a queue of 106 to get into Spriggan around 3pm on a workday.

[KageTokage]

How hard is it for se to search bots on google to see whos the top botting programs and have them crack these bots to bann people?

I'm not sure why they can't just issue a cease and desist order when most of the said programs are paid services.

SE has been pretty aggressive about enforcing copyright infringement and other illegal practices when it comes to their properties.

[MariaArvana]

I'm not sure why they can't just issue a cease and desist order when most of the said programs are paid services.

SE has been pretty aggressive about enforcing copyright infringement and other illegal practices when it comes to their properties.

More often than not, the bot companies and companies that create botting programs operate out of countries where cease and desist letters would do nothing beyond providing a piece of paper to instantly throw in the recycle bin. Lots of the countries they operate in just genuinely don't care, or in some cases, might even be profiting off of such things to the point of attempting legal action against the companies directly is basically pointless. Its infinitely easier for Square to target people infringing their copyright or illegal practices when they do it within the confines of a country that has actually good legal systems.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

How hard is it for se to search bots on google to see whos the top botting programs and have them crack these bots to bann people?

Square Enix is not entirely able to do this. these websites have actual protection by setting their policy/terms to disallow SE employees, and the like, access to the site. they can still access the site, but would be immediately violating the terms of these sites.

SE themselves are not allowed to touch the websites, or bots/services provided. Square Enix would have to hire freelancers.

[KageTokage]

Square Enix is not entirely able to do this. these websites have actual protection by setting their policy/terms to disallow SE employees, and the like, access to the site. they can still access the site, but would be immediately violating the terms of these sites.

SE themselves are not allowed to touch the websites, or bots/services provided. Square Enix would have to hire freelancers.

I really doubt that having a silly ToS statement like that is enough to protect a website conducting illegal activities from the companies who'd be concerned about them. Violating the terms of a website means nothing if it doesn't have a legal team to defend/enforce those terms, and even if they do a company as big as SE could crush them if they wanted to (Though the biggest issue as always is the "if" part because large companies are also generally not going to waste their time with legal matters that serve to benefit them little).

Still, even if you purge a website manufacturing bots, said programs are going to remain in circulation and continue being spread and maintained regardless so it's really best for a MMO to just have a competent enforcement team banning the less persistent types of bots with regularity and taking lasting measures to prevent the more persistent ones like RMT bots from functioning.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

I don't think a silly ToS like that would actually matter when SE's legal teams could easily crush them if they felt like it. I can only assume the websites Blizzard cracked down on for WoW had similar "protection", but it didn't stop them.

I guess the issue is that big companies generally don't even want to raise legal issues if it's not necessary in their eyes, so they very likely would rather just tolerate the bots then raise a case about it.

Though the most popular botting tool for XIV isn't even being run by a company; it's just a small project managed by a handful of different players who are very unlikely to have the legal grounds to even try to defend themselves and would be forced to simply desist if confronted.

yeah. this is all true. my response was mostly for actually cracking the software used to perform botting. Sqaure Enix themselves are not allowed to directly acquire or even reverse engineer any of this. that is, assuming the domain/software/website owner(s) has such terms in effect. if so, accessing those services would tip the bias in favor of whoever runs those sites. in this case it would be Square Enix playing the defendant... however unlikely that might actually may be. LOL! but keep in mind... if it could somehow be proven SE violated any of those terms, then it would easily become an open-and-shut case.

but yeah... i imagine a company would weigh their options on this. if it is financially worth it or not. one thing to note, whether we like or not, bots can also potentially bring in money for a game company too. so, not only would it cost SE to take action, but they would potentially lose revenue too. i don't know what Blizzard's numbers are like, but they have a limited free-2-play model. F2P is only up to level 20, but this would still allow botters an in to bot currency/things for selling. which would in turn cover their subscriptions fee's. well, this makes it highly unlikely Blizzard would actually lose any significant amount of revenue, or any at all. while FFXIV does have a free-trial there is also, unlike WoW, a gil cap. the botter(s) could likely achieve the same effect, but it would also probably take significantly longer.

also, in that case with Blizzard... that would have been a more direct attack. in other words, Blizzard would have taken action against them for the interference of their ability to pull in revenue. and not simply for the usage of any third-party software/tool.

on another note, it is actually easy to create Terms and Conditions/Terms of Service for any domain/website owner. however, if this botting tool form the small project place you speak of is not operated for the explicit use with FFXIV... then it is unlikely they have any terms set forth expressly forbidding Square Enix's access/usage.

[KageTokage]

on another note, it is actually easy to create Terms and Conditions/Terms of Service for any domain/website owner. however, if this botting tool form the small project place you speak of is not operated for the explicit use with FFXIV... then it is unlikely they have any terms set forth expressly forbidding Square Enix's access/usage.

It is specifically designed for XIV, but I still fail to see how making a ToS would protect them.

Couldn't those myriads of fan projects and other types of copyright infrigement Nintendo has shut down have been protected in the same manner?

It just doesn't sound right that any website can basically just say "Nuh uh, you guys can't do anything to us" and have it actually work that way.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

It is specifically designed for XIV, but I still fail to see how making a ToS would protect them.

Couldn't those myriads of fan projects and other types of copyright infrigement Nintendo has shut down have been protected in the same manner?

It just doesn't sound right that any website can basically just say "Nuh uh, you guys can't do anything to us" and have it actually work that way.

the ToS can be legally binding. if you were to visit the domain/website anywhere beyond the landing page, or in some cases the landing page requires you to agree to the ToS, or even sometimes the landing page is asking for your age - regardless, browsing any further then whatever first page you are brought to would constitute you as agreeing to those terms. it would protect them from certain actions, mostly just forbidding any employee from browsing the site or using any services that may be provided.

a website wouldn't have a company dead-to-rights for breaking those terms, and would have to file a lawsuit. they are obviously unlikely to ever ever win. but again, if they could prove an employee violated their ToS then a lawsuit wouldn't be so farfetched. on the other hand... reverse engineering software is an entirely different section of the ToS. they could actually prosecute for this. in the end, the only way around this would be to hire a freelancer. however, even with that being done. whatever information or work the freelancer provides couldn't be used in court.

as for Nintendo taking down ROM hosting sites... copyright infringement is something else entirely. that is a federal crime, regardless of any Terms and Conditions. the only time breaking the ToS could be a crime of any kind is if it explicitly either states so, or states something like you will prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. otherwise, any other ToS violations would have to be handled in a lawsuit.



also, as previously mention by MariaArvana. depending on the country certain things are hosted out of... there may or may not be anything that can be done. in this particular situation it would require either, a country itself making a declaration to take action ( which may even mean war ) or Square Enix attempting a lawsuit in their own courts of whatever country is responsible for hosting these services. which obviously won't end well.

it is no secret that certain countries don't deal with the UN or USA or other countries for the sole reason of keeping things like telemarketer scam phone calls in operation. i wouldn't doubt the same is true for like movie/tv show hosting sites, ROM download sites or even cheat/hack sites for botters.