One more thread to complain about the soul-crushing placard spamming

[Kenky]

Why would a player owning an instanced house and taking a break from the game upset you so? Their ownership of that house would not block any other active player from owning a house. When houses are only available in the wards and thus a limited resource, that ownership does block other active players from getting a house when there are none otherwise available.Take a look at all the other games using instanced housing successfully without the drama we see caused by the ward system here.

Instanced housing will fix all the issues I listed. You clearly don't understand how instanced housing works compared to wards if you think instanced housing will be an even worse drain on server resources. .

You're going on the assumption that everyone deserves a home, or is entitled to one and that cannot be further from the truth. You're entitled to a chance. On top of that, housing needs to remains finite so that there is a demand for them. If everyone could get a house, then what exactly is the point of owning one? The only benefit they have is for FCs with FC-related subsystems and growing crops. A Personal Home has no use other than to flex. But you wouldn't have anything to flex if everyone could get it.

On top of that, you need to re-read what I said about Instanced Housing vs Ward housing. I never said Instanced housing would be more draining. I stated that, if SE does go the way of Instanced housing. There'll be a massive surge and will take up far more memory than a small does. Purely because of the quantity of instanced housing. That's not taking into account exterior furniture, but that doesn't seem to be hampering anything beyond maybe .01 seconds added onto loading into the ward / subdivision.

Keep in mind, here. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people screaming for a housing fix, adamant that "instancing" will fix the issue. The moment that becomes a reality (Which I hope doesn't), there will be thousands of new instanced houses flooding the system and it may not even be able to cope. Nobody (that I am aware of) knows the hardware specs of the Server Computers SE uses.

EDIT: And of course nobody's going to complain about being banned for House-flipping. To complain admits you did it. Nobody's that dumb.

[Wanzzo]

All this discussion reminds me another MMO called "dofus" who bought an ideia for housing from another MMO of the same creators (Wakfu). The system consists in all character, after reaching lv10, do a quest to open a "magic bag". When getting one, you can teleport to the inside of the bag which is your "portable" home capable of receive decorations and themes (that you can buy optional themes in their 'mogstation' like site).

I don't mean to SE do exactly the same, but I think all this problem could be solved simply by giving to all chars the possibility of have a simple house. Let's say that in the name of all that you do for Eorzea the Alliance would give you a house as a gift. You can then teleport for your personal house, decorate it, invite friends and so on...

Another aspect is: they could do that without removing all the house options already done. But, they could remove the dependency between exploratory missions and housing. Let's say that when you got yourself a FC the ironworks team just send to you a new NPC that allows your FC to use his/her factory.

In this way, all of us get a house (after reaching lv50 and ending 2.0 would be the perfect moment to receive the key for our personal house). Of course, your 'personal house' cannot be sold and you can have one more house in a ward (or one apartment) with the same char that you can sell normaly.

All ward houses would be as it is now: a trophy for VERY patient people who want to have "legacy type" houses (with more features, like more interior slots for stuffs and expandeable rooms). And appartments would be like as it is now, but with more slots as well and a gardening place.

The 'personal house' should be different of those two houses being more simple, but with the option to have full gardening as well (and more unique features in new expansions to come).

This way, we'll have 3 kinds of houses:
- a 'personal' house: the most simple, but with gardening system (with a gardener and a tiny and cozy greenhouse). Cannot be sold (it would be bind to your char). Fewer costumization options.
- a 'normal' house: limited to 1 for char (beside the personal house). Can be bought in wards or apartment. Can be sold normaly. More options to costumize and divided in 3 tiers (as we know now: small, regular, big house).
- a Free Company House: exclusively reached at special for FCs wards. Have the most complex ways to customize, expand and more space with, of course, their own prices table and being able to sell as well. Divided also in 3 tiers of size: regular, big house and mansions.

In each actual ward we could have a public chocobo stable. For all we can do using the FC one we can do as well on the public chocobo stable. The difference would be that for everything you want (like change color, train, etc) you'd have to pay for the service to a NPC there. You can even use a chocobo's food without having it on your inventory (since you pay the price for the service to the NPC as well).

The same goes to gardening. Imagine a caretaker in your house (or a greenhouse manager) which you pay for the service of raising and managing your seeds. In this way you can grow plants and flowers (and the freaking thavnarian onion) without minding the time to visit it (since you afford the price for the service). To compensate things, let's say the NPC gardener is as lazy as a drunk lalafel at the end of a seasonal feast, so, using his services will take more time to complete gardening than you would if you do it by yourself.

If those changes are someday implemented, we will have more options and more versatility to train chocobos, to make exploratory missions, gameplay, gardening and more independency at doing all that without having to enter a FC first. And if we enter a FC we will still be having all those options and systems.

Nothing 'removed', but just expanded for the sake of versatility. This will surely kill this inhuman queue issue we have today.

[Nix]

You're going on the assumption that everyone deserves a home, or is entitled to one and that cannot be further from the truth. You're entitled to a chance. On top of that, housing needs to remains finite so that there is a demand for them. If everyone could get a house, then what exactly is the point of owning one? The only benefit they have is for FCs with FC-related subsystems and growing crops. A Personal Home has no use other than to flex. But you wouldn't have anything to flex if everyone could get it.

On top of that, you need to re-read what I said about Instanced Housing vs Ward housing. I never said Instanced housing would be more draining. I stated that, if SE does go the way of Instanced housing. There'll be a massive surge and will take up far more memory than a small does. Purely because of the quantity of instanced housing. That's not taking into account exterior furniture, but that doesn't seem to be hampering anything beyond maybe .01 seconds added onto loading into the ward / subdivision.

Keep in mind, here. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people screaming for a housing fix, adamant that "instancing" will fix the issue. The moment that becomes a reality (Which I hope doesn't), there will be thousands of new instanced houses flooding the system and it may not even be able to cope. Nobody (that I am aware of) knows the hardware specs of the Server Computers SE uses.

EDIT: And of course nobody's going to complain about being banned for House-flipping. To complain admits you did it. Nobody's that dumb.

You talk as if SE wouldn't do stress-tests before instanced housing is released... lol.

We have instances now and we're fine - Dungeons, Inn rooms etc. are all instanced and lo and behold, no server crashes ;D. You say yourself that "Nobody (that I am aware of) knows the hardware specs of the Server Computers SE uses.", this includes yourself. SE wouldn't roll something out that breaks the game. You don't know that instanced housing would be so detrimental.

As someone that owns a mansion, I believe that everyone is entitled to a house - we've been promised so much, and yet the dev team have backtracked or outright ignored past promises. Originally, we were told that FC and personal houses would be different, and that we wouldn't be charged the same prices for each... But look at how that turned out (oops). Plenty of older MMOs have been able to deliver instanced housing to their players.
Personally, I'd love to see workshops added to existing, non-FC houses (at a cost, same as it is for FC houses); and I'd love to see apartments of different sizes that allow for crossbreed gardening. If we tweaked what we currently have, at least that'd help to alleviate some of the issues people have with the current housing system. (example: apartments are too few/small/can't garden etc.)

[Rarariru]

You're going on the assumption that everyone deserves a home, or is entitled to one and that cannot be further from the truth. You're entitled to a chance. On top of that, housing needs to remains finite so that there is a demand for them. If everyone could get a house, then what exactly is the point of owning one? The only benefit they have is for FCs with FC-related subsystems and growing crops. A Personal Home has no use other than to flex. But you wouldn't have anything to flex if everyone could get it.

As we all pay a subscription for the game, yes, we do deserve it. Isn't it rather sad that you would deny housing for everyone because of the "status" you feel is affixed to it? You speak as if people will go visit your house, awestruck and envious, "Look! That is the house of Kenky, known to allas the foremost Eorzean real estate magnate!" Give me a break. Nobody but you cares about your house. There is no "flexing" involved. Perhaps you attach too much self-worth to your house and you think that everyone being able to enjoy a house will somehow invalidate that feeling. It will, but that's really a personal problem for you that you'll have to come to terms with.

Oh no! All the filthy plebeians now have houses too! What will become of the vaunted reputation I gained through the ownership of my house?!

Are you serious?

[Amedahast]

What about one small change to the current system. Could keep the random time up to 22 hours from when the house collapses, but instead of standing around at the placard for 22 hours clicking. just let the placard take names, so you put your name in the pool. Then some random time like now, it picks a name at random. Then you have 24 hours to get back to the placard to complete the purchase. If you don't get there, then it picks another name and so forth. Could even limit it so you cannot just go around putting your name in the pool on every house, say maybe 2 max or something. If worried about house flipping, then limit how often you can purchase a house. once a week or something.

[ERMITANYO]

There are things however that are easier acquired than others. In terms of housing, currently houses in districts/wards are hard to acquire and at the same time not adequate for the number of players but it is still attainable with some competition required, this is where an instanced form of housing comes in, that is to provide a readily available form of housing with the utilities of a house in the districts/wards, with benefits such as no auto demolition, possibly an instanced balcony aesthetic, etc. but minus the private yard.

[Jojoya]

snip

Why do you assume other players don't deserve to have a house? Why do you think you deserve a house more than another player? Maybe you're the one who doesn't deserve it.

There will always be a demand for housing because people enjoy it. Most people don't feel threatened when other players have the same things they do. I wonder why you do.

What's the benefit and use of owning? Having fun. I don't need people going in and out of my house to have fun decorating and redecorating when the mood strikes me.

I don't flex over owning a house. My enjoyment doesn't come from trying to impress others. That's a you problem if you're using housing to build your self-esteem. Might I suggest that you go after the Legendary titles if you genuinely want something to flex over?

You still don't understand how instanced housing works and it's clear you're not willing to learn. You make up reasons that don't have anything to do with the reality.

Are you new to gaming forums? People openly complain about the stupid things they do that lead to getting banned all the time. Game forums and fansite forums are filled with hysterical posts from people who admit to violating rules because they felt they wouldn't get caught or that the rules shouldn't apply to them if they were, then they cry and whine like small children because they got banned after all.

Safe to say we're not going to agree here. You want housing to be designed so you can feel like a special snowflake. I want housing accessible so everyone who wants to enjoy it can.

An instanced system doesn't have to remove your ability to be a special snowflake if the wards also remain in place. You can gloat over having that exclusive ward house while others get to have fun in their instanced housing. It's a win win for everyone - but I guess you can't stand the thought of others also getting to have some fun. What a petty, selfish attitude you have.

[Kenky]

Good, you got me.

No, I don't know how the SE servers held up, but I do recall an entire datacenter going down quite regularly because of the issues of a single server on it. It may be a long-since fixed issue. But it was an issue nonetheless.

No, I don't think people deserve a house. Because I still stand by my previous point that if all could obtain one, then it would lose all value. I may not even deserve the plot I have (as you all seem so adamant to cry about) but I have one, because I used the system given to me. Not cry like a child on a forum demanding Entitlement.

Yes, I do understand how instanced housing works, but I still stand by my point that plenty of high-pop servers all flooding a single subsystem with requests could have rather detrimental effects. Regardless of how "stress-tested" the system is. Or do I need to simply point out that excessive clicking and buy-requests through the Placard system can chug the entire server for a few seconds, if done too much? Inn rooms and Dungeons aren't "perfect" either.

No, I don't feel threatened about people owning housing. I would rather much like everyone to have a house of their own, so they can enjoy the systems given to them. But sadly, I'm one of those "realistic" people that can see it won't just be a simple fix, like a snap of the fingers.

More wards? More players come on, needing more wards and apartments, bringing more players in. A vicious cycle. I could easily just say "move to a lower pop server and you'll get a house. Don't complain." but even then, I am aware that people have connections to what servers they're on. Maybe they have friends, or an FC there. A community they would rather like to keep above getting a house.

At the end of the day, it's fine if we disagree. But stating I don't know anything because I disagree just makes you seem pretty petty.

EDIT: For mathematical reasons, lets say everyone is entitled or deserved a house. Say high-pop servers are at 8,000 - 10,000 unique players at a stretch, that would mean you're requesting at least 10,000 House plots per server (Not including apartments) on all servers. Which would fix the high-pop issue, but cause all low-pop servers (Sub 1,000 unique players) to have an even bigger ghost-town. Not only that, but the "We fixed the housing system!" outcry would bring in more people, statistically flocking to the higher-pop servers, raising its population while leaving the lower-pops barely touched. I'd give that scenario a month, tops. Before people start complaining about "housing issues" again. While it would be fine and dandy to keep adding plots. Not all servers are filled to the brim.

Adding more housing (even instanced) would make lower-pop servers all the more 'dead' because they'd have thousands of empty plots, sitting there at the lowest possible value (1M, if that) with nobody interested in picking it up. Adding more housing cannot be done with a "per-server" basis. If one server gets an upgrade, they ALL get an upgrade. It's a tricky dance SE will have to perform in order to please the vocal minority, while not killing the system for lower-pops.

[Drkdays]

Good, you got me.

No, I don't know how the SE servers held up, but I do recall an entire datacenter going down quite regularly because of the issues of a single server on it. It may be a long-since fixed issue. But it was an issue nonetheless.

No, I don't think people deserve a house. Because I still stand by my previous point that if all could obtain one, then it would lose all value. I may not even deserve the plot I have (as you all seem so adamant to cry about) but I have one, because I used the system given to me. Not cry like a child on a forum demanding Entitlement.

You're incorrect there. Everyone who wants house absolutely deserves to have one. It's one thing if you're talking about it losing value because it takes no effort to get, like max ilv raid gear given to players simply because they gave savage a shot or something, but the issue is a total lack of availability.
In other words, no matter how hard they "try" they can never get a house unless one opens up. So what you're saying is that housing is worth having only because you were LUCKY which is why it's unfair, like your simple luck makes you more worthy than others. LUCK is not an achievement, it's just luck. So, grats for being lucky whereas others were not. It's not much to be proud of really...It's not like you played the game better to get a house, because skill has nothing to do with it, and that's where the divide should really be. It's one thing to have something others don't because you earned it through hard work, it's very much another to have something because you clicked a placard faster or happened to get a house before the game gained more players.

Sure, it'll take effort to add houses, everyone can agree there, but it's a good thing that they need to add more because it means more people are playing their game. That means they'll have to step up efforts to appease everyone, not tell new players they can never have a house because, well, they're just too late or they're just not good enough at speed clicking placards.

[Nix]

At the end of the day, it's fine if we disagree. But stating I don't know anything because I disagree just makes you seem pretty petty.

No, I'm stating that you don't know anything BECAUSE you don't know anything, not because I disagree with you.

You say that you don't feel threatened about others owning a house, but I feel like there's some animosity toward those that do want one

No, I don't think people deserve a house. Because I still stand by my previous point that if all could obtain one, then it would lose all value. I may not even deserve the plot I have (as you all seem so adamant to cry about) but I have one, because I used the system given to me. Not cry like a child on a forum demanding Entitlement.

As a previous poster put it - you weren't skilled/talented/whatever enough to get a house - all you did was click a placard faster, go you. /slowclap

I already own a mansion in a pretty spiffy plot and you know what? Despite the millions I dropped on that house, I would love to see others be able to get a house. They should be able to enjoy the game at its fullest. They pay the same sub as me. If it were a matter of skill keeping people out of housing then I'd be on the other side of the fence - but it's not. It's a terribly broken system that favors botters and people who either have +12hrs to sit at a placard spamming, or those who are just lucky.

Keep the existing wards so that those who really give a damn about showing off/whatever can still do so, but add instances so that those who just want a place to call home are able to. And before the argument that "We have apartments/FC rooms!" is dropped - they are tiny and don't have all the functionality of a house so don't really count.

Adding more housing (even instanced) would make lower-pop servers all the more 'dead' because they'd have thousands of empty plots, sitting there at the lowest possible value (1M, if that) with nobody interested in picking it up. Adding more housing cannot be done with a "per-server" basis. If one server gets an upgrade, they ALL get an upgrade. It's a tricky dance SE will have to perform in order to please the vocal minority, while not killing the system for lower-pops.

It really wouldn't - you'll still have the people that want to show off in the wards. To add instanced housing doesn't mean that they'll have to add more wards - if they kept the wards limited, those houses would be seen by some as a status item. Who wouldn't jump at buying their own piece of the zone?

The main argument I'm hearing from people who are against this is "BUT...MY PRESTIGE!"

Who's acting petty now?