SMN; How do poison DoTs fit the class?

[Anvaire]

Arcanists are basically using healing magic in reverse, to do damage. So they dont really fit summoner. But you have to remember that we arent "really" a summoner in XIV. We are an Arcanist that uses some ancient techniques deployed by summoners. Which is also why as we gain more levels dots just dont seem to fit.

[Powercow]

Next thing you know you'll have SAM casting Fire because the spirit of the katana tells him to.

I mean, Samurai does have an ice/wind attack with Yukikaze (Yuki = snow, Kaze = wind).

Plus yeah if you were trying to kill someone and could fill their lungs with fluid, it seems like it'd be an effective (if cruel) way to do it. Remember that Jobs are just advancements of classes -- Monks use Bootshine not because it involves inner peace, chakra, and martial prowess... it's because punching the **** out of someone really hard is an effective tactic leftover from Pugilist. Paladins bleed opponents out with some skills, because Gladiatorial combat often came down to just bleeding your foe out. White Mages, for a very long time, kept chucking rocks because of their background as a Conjurer.

[Xyr]

IMO
Poison - NIN
Bleed - SAM
curses - DRK

[Nyoraii]

I mean, Samurai does have an ice/wind attack with Yukikaze (Yuki = snow, Kaze = wind).

Plus yeah if you were trying to kill someone and could fill their lungs with fluid, it seems like it'd be an effective (if cruel) way to do it. Remember that Jobs are just advancements of classes -- Monks use Bootshine not because it involves inner peace, chakra, and martial prowess... it's because punching the **** out of someone really hard is an effective tactic leftover from Pugilist. Paladins bleed opponents out with some skills, because Gladiatorial combat often came down to just bleeding your foe out. White Mages, for a very long time, kept chucking rocks because of their background as a Conjurer.

Even then, Summoner is a classic FF job, it has never ever had anything to do with DoTs. It could easily be retconned to be just a SCH thing, but SMN has never had anything to do with it.

SMN should be about summoning, which it isn't right now and has never been. Most of the damage from SMN comes from dots and ruin, which is really silly. Even more silly is Ifrit/Garuda/Titan hitting for 2k on oGCD...

IMO
Poison - NIN
Bleed - SAM
curses - DRK

WAR could have bleeds too IMO, heck even in the official art of the first WAR, the axe is drenched in blood.

[Sequora]

I’ve literally been saying this since day 1. I think they wanted to release ARR with a new class and they literally just copy pasted WoW warlock. Pet classes in MMOs are usually “evil” classes like warlocks or necromancers. I think they got lazy, looked at the fact that none of the classes use poisons and bam. I’m fine with DoTs, but poisons feel out of place. I think it almost makes sense for scholar.

[Siete]

Even then, Summoner is a classic FF job, it has never ever had anything to do with DoTs. It could easily be retconned to be just a SCH thing, but SMN has never had anything to do with it.

SMN should be about summoning, which it isn't right now and has never been. Most of the damage from SMN comes from dots and ruin, which is really silly. Even more silly is Ifrit/Garuda/Titan hitting for 2k on oGCD...



WAR could have bleeds too IMO, heck even in the official art of the first WAR, the axe is drenched in blood.

Yeah, they could remove DoTs and make the pets apply a debuff sort of like "Aetheric Disturbance" making Ruin spells hit harder and then add the missing potency of the dots to the rest of the toolkit or simply ruin because heck, even BLM Blizzard hits harder than Ruin III.

[Akimitsu]

My memories of SCH and SMN quests is a bit hazy but; in terms of lore, Bio and Miasma might be explained by Scholars' past, their nations were brought low by a poison/curse that turned them into Tonberry. Studying the effects of that poison probably led them to develop poison oriented spells? There's no mention (afaik) of old SCHs and allag SMNs using poison spells, originally. ACN being the current era's closest thing to what these jobs used to be, you're working with that base and expand your arsenal with ancient techniques.
I don't mind DoTs on SMN, can't expect jobs to be the exact same thing in every FF. But the job still revolving around puny (clunky) egis, especially now that we have access to demi primals... Yikes.

[Sinh119]

Well you get them as Arcanist for a reason. They are Arcanist techniques specifically, which is why Scholar also has them. Your complaint is more that Summoner doesn't fit as a branch of the Arcanist class, which is valid. As Summoners focus more on demi-primals it makes less and less sense that we are tied to the Arcanist class, to the point where Summoner should really just be its own thing. If they really wanted to they could just replace Bio and Miasma with primal-themed equivalents, but they seem to want to make sure that link to the Arcanist class is still there, and so Bio and Miasma (along with physick) are what we have.

[Taranok]

Well you get them as Arcanist for a reason. They are Arcanist techniques specifically, which is why Scholar also has them. Your complaint is more that Summoner doesn't fit as a branch of the Arcanist class, which is valid. As Summoners focus more on demi-primals it makes less and less sense that we are tied to the Arcanist class, to the point where Summoner should really just be its own thing. If they really wanted to they could just replace Bio and Miasma with primal-themed equivalents, but they seem to want to make sure that link to the Arcanist class is still there, and so Bio and Miasma (along with physick) are what we have.

It's also worth noting that Arcanist originally was designed to support what would become the Summoner in ARR. Which is to say SMN was designed to be a WoW Warlock knockoff with its own bizarro mechanics because the devs didn't quite understand or know where they wanted the class to go and thought the Egi system was the better choice, mixed with 4 DoTs (Bio, Miasma, Bio 2, I think they had Miasma 2 as an aoe DoT, and Shadowflare, though M2 was never used ST). Plus the pets which had an awful implementation that stuck through SB only to be made into a better-but-still-bad implementation in ShB.

So the devs have been trying desperately to keep the core of the class the same (the original poison mage design of ARR) so they wouldn't need to do major edits to the class or rewrites of the lore, but in SB they hit upon the right way to implement summons in FFXIV, and in ShB pushed the class towards that.

Fast forward a bit and you can see the disjointed problem trying to salvage the core design caused. SMN stopped being a true poison mage in SB, but it's being kept because the devs don't want to change the core, which is why this is turning into a mess that doesn't fit either thematically or gameplay wise.

The lore of Arcanist was written to facilitate ARR's summoner, but it no longer fits how Summoner plays now because the current summoner is the closest to a true summoner FFXIV has ever had, while also being the furthest away from poison mage it's ever been, so the class just feels like a mess because of it.

[Razard]

Even then, Summoner is a classic FF job, it has never ever had anything to do with DoTs.

Oh would you look at that:

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki...play#Abilities

Level 10 and Level 26.