Summoner 5.05 changes are in

[Taranok]

I wouldn't give up per se. Its fun for dungeons where you aren't taking up a slot from another caster.

And their rotation is fun, some find it clunky, I don't, but some can play instruments that others dont understand, and some can do puzzles, or math equations that others can't, so for me, I understand its flow, and where everything should go in their two minute rotation, and you may enjoy it.

I enjoy it's current state and I personally hope they only fix clipping of certain skills, and keep their current rotation but the dps needs to be raised to reflect how much work a summoner has to do, otherwise were just wasting everyone's time, and that robs what fun I do have from the job when they'd rather take another job that does just as much and more.

To provide some context to this: Some players absolutely, unconditionally loved Machinist in Stormblood, but the class was absolutely badly designed and poorly received by the community at large. Right now, Summoner appears to be squarely in this boat both on the official forums and, more prominently, on Reddit.

So I would wish Kiteless the best of luck on being in the minority that both loves the class and can do well on it.

I’m guessing the problem with the last factor is that you can’t really balance jobs based on difficulty, this is just a problem that sadly occurs in jobs which massive differences in job skill curve disparity

But the dps difference between BLM summoner and redmage is larger then any other job. Imho summoner should be doing dps on par with dragoon/monk with RDM abit begins them to respect RDMs have more mobility.

If BLM was on 14k summoner on 13.5k and RDM around 13k (it’s rng will prolly bring it alittle lower then that overall) I think it’d be more in line with where other roles are sitting dps difference wise

It's not even necessarily a skill difficulty curve thing. I can perform above average on the job. Good, not fantastic, depends on group comp (because, you know, summoner sucks with a red mage buddy), but decent enough. The issue is I basically have to tunnel vision like mad to follow all the buffs and debuffs and cooldowns and the second I hit Titania's adds transition I had to fully accept that SMN was poorly designed, because the second all the cooldowns became desynced, the class went to hell in a handbasket. You just can't have a class that has its rotation break down from standard boss mechanics. None of the other jobs I've leveled to 80 come close, the next worst offender being Gunbreaker of all things because of No Mercy existing, and they can forcibly align it if they need to. And at this point I've leveled BLM, SMN, SCH, BRD, MCH, and GNB. All of them handle their rotations vastly better than SMN, and many of them beat SMN at its own game.

[SWB]

I dont know, during add phase of titania everything is lined up to burst even more damage, and the end of the add phase, I have my opener ready to go all over again.

I can get KO'd, go through transition phases, go through dungeons bursting my abilities and it always lines back up, so I dont think it is the jobs fault if things are falling out of place

[Neela]

im really curious why the boost egi cd... do they intend to swap them midfight? Do they intend that we should use it and lose even more uptime/dmg? I’m Smn since release but this time I really don’t get it?...

[Hasrat]

Egi swapping was one thing I wasn't certain on, as well. In theory, it could be optimal to swap out for single target or AoE, right? In practice, something you likely wouldn't ever do with everything else going on. But, an option?

Idk. Spent a bit writing up a big post in another thread that sorta died, but, never really managed to understand SMN and the way things are meant to fit and flow together (because, evidently, they don't very well).

[Taranok]

im really curious why the boost egi cd... do they intend to swap them midfight? Do they intend that we should use it and lose even more uptime/dmg? I’m Smn since release but this time I really don’t get it?...

I imagine it's to help when people fat finger the button and summon the wrong egi. Having it on any cooldown already is a bit of a bizarre choice, the act of swapping pets is already incredibly punishing as is.

Egi swapping was one thing I wasn't certain on, as well. In theory, it could be optimal to swap out for single target or AoE, right? In practice, something you likely wouldn't ever do with everything else going on. But, an option?

Idk. Spent a bit writing up a big post in another thread that sorta died, but, never really managed to understand SMN and the way things are meant to fit and flow together (because, evidently, they don't very well).

There is no advantage to swapping outside of having a pretty substantial difference in the number of enemies present. No matter how much damage Garuda-egi might do or Slipstream might do, there is literally no reason to swap because the lost GCDs from the pet autoing or Ifrit needing to run back to the boss will more than spoil any advantages you would have had from getting a few extra potency.

[xicious]

Thanks Square-Enix for adding insult to injury, this is disgusting. The class is still a dumpster fire and the two changes you make are to fix a glitch(pretty much) and reduce recast timer on an ability/system you nerfed because I really want to make my abysmal damage worse by going to a more trash pet. I love being a squishy boy being out damaged by a healer. Let us equip tank gear since our dps is more on par with them. Oh but Yoshi-p's Black mage got all these buffs, did you have to take our dps to add to theirs?

At this point the best thing to do is not play the class and let them physically see the decline in the usage numbers. I don't know how else to get through to them.

[MarniDawg]

Yeah.. I saw the smn changes and just laughed. What a joke. I'll go back to playing rdm and hope they fix the job in 5.1 *sigh*

[Sequora]

I think I'm just mad that changes coming in 5.1 is too late. That means SMN won't be viable for raiding until the second set of raids. It's really odd how they super focused on trying to fix some jobs like AST, and even RDM to an extent, but NIN and SMN got next to nothing.

[Goji1639]

So, how long will it likely be until 5.1? I'm new and don't really have a handle on how fast SE rolls out updates for this game.

I'm leveling a summoner as my first class and that will likely take me a while, so worrying about the classes current state is pointless. From what I've read about the class it sounds like it needs a complete overhaul, and if so the lack of significant changes in this patch makes sense; the class that needs the most work takes the longest, and I'm guessing the problems with AST, MNK, etc. were quicker fixes.

[dinnertime]

5.1 might come around in 2 to 3 months.

Even if they're planning on a big change for 5.1, they could've at least thrown out some helpful adjustments to SMN right now to help it for savage raids, even potency increases would've been enough because it's undertuned imo. The changes it got is barely relevant, let alone fixed anything, that it's insulting.

But yes, yet *again* SMN needs an overhaul...