SE needs to do more to help bad players

[Lunavi]

Say that to me again when dps drop aoe on the entire group for uptime on innocence extreme, blow a meteor, and wipe half the group. There aren't enough rescues in a day to deal with stupid.

My original statement that that was a reply to was to non-lethal damage, which meteors into stars does not fall into. Note that I do not believe that DPS should ever take unavoidable damage, but it is about as "bad" as healers not doing damage while they literally do no other casts. They need to learn basic ABC, Always Be Casting.

[SturmChurro]

My original statement that that was a reply to was to non-lethal damage, which meteors into stars does not fall into. Note that I do not believe that DPS should ever take unavoidable damage, but it is about as "bad" as healers not doing damage while they literally do no other casts. They need to learn basic ABC, Always Be Casting.

They don't want to. They say they are "healers" and healers heal, so they don't do dps. They know they have glare, etc. They don't use them on principle.

[Lunavi]

They don't want to. They say they are "healers" and healers heal, so they don't do dps. They know they have glare, etc. They don't use them on principle.

Yes, and that is as problematic as a BLM standing in avoidable (to add again, non-lethal and non-partywiping to clarify) damage and telling the healers to adjust as their job is to do damage and the healers job is to keep the party alive by healing them. In all fairness, if the healer does nothing but heal this approach is actually in reality the optimal approach as any healer GCD not spent healing will be a wasted GCD, so if DPS can just push out a single more damage by standing in the bad and still surviving so the healer has to heal more it is worth it as that healer will otherwise not do a single thing during that GCD, not that I believe that anyone should ever do this and definitely not to make a habit or even do it as a statement.

[DavidIven]

healers dont do dps when they are free is retarded, the amount of damage they can output is no joke, so why not make thing faster and easier? Do you realize that your damage contribution can prevent an enrage?

[Kaethra]

healers dont do dps when they are free is retarded, the amount of damage they can output is no joke, so why not make thing faster and easier? Do you realize that your damage contribution can prevent an enrage?

We need to swap healers.

Most of the time my healers let the tank die during trash pulls because they're DPSing. Or they let the party die on a boss because they don't top them off between the unavoidable party-buster aoes.

[Bonbori]

Honestly I don't know what more SE can do than they already do with things such as role quests and solo instances. I sometimes feel like certain players are consciously determined to remain a liability to the party no matter how much the game holds their hand.

Titania is a good example of that. Its tight dps check should in theory do a good job of weeding out the 0 dps healers, but in reality... there are some people who just do not take the hint. SE really needs to be less subtle about this. At some point people need to be explicitly told that (although it may have been watered down to one-button-spam) a healer is expected to fill every nanosecond they're not healing or dodging mechanics with damage. ABC needs to be drilled into them from level 1. A 73 trial is FAR too late.

[Maneesha]

Wasn't in the mood to read 12 pages, in case someone proposed the same (its not a new revolutionary idea), just label my post as agreeing to it.

I think this game just needs a more challenging 4 man content. What/where is the "expert" in expert roulette? Its just the "new" lvl 80 dungeon which replaces the previous one with a slightly higher lvl requirements and drops. Why not simply put 1 actually challenging 4 man dungeon in there, maybe some other 4man content other then dungeon, increase the rewards perhaps (since a lot of people seem to need a reason to do something challenging,or its "not worth it" or "inefficient"), keep them always min-ilvl and simply keep adding to those. If the devs design 3 new dungeons, 2 should be easy like the ones we have now,1 should be more challenging and be added to the "expert" roulette. We simply need something to be a "bridge" to the spike in difficulty we have from all previous and current 4man difficulty/normal mode/24man raids, to extreme modes and savage.

[SturmChurro]

Honestly I don't know what more SE can do than they already do with things such as role quests and solo instances. I sometimes feel like certain players are consciously determined to remain a liability to the party no matter how much the game holds their hand.

Titania is a good example of that. Its tight dps check should in theory do a good job of weeding out the 0 dps healers, but in reality... there are some people who just do not take the hint. SE really needs to be less subtle about this. At some point people need to be explicitly told that (although it may have been watered down to one-button-spam) a healer expected to fill every nanosecond they're not healing or dodging mechanics with damage. ABC needs to be drilled into them from level 1.

I wouldn't call either of the extremes "tight dps checks" you actually don't even have to have high dps, or healers doing dps to pass those easy. Had a dps down (d/c) with healers doing average at best dps from what I understood and still can manage a kill before enrage. It's when you have extremely subpar players who have no idea how to play their class effectively that you can't pass an enrage. It should actually be a higher DPS check, so unless you are actually doing average dps as a team you can just clear it.

More punishing enrages I think would encourage more players to play effectively, as in a death could potentially be enough downtime to cause a wipe, and encourage team play.

[Wavaryen]

Lots of pages, but I'm just going to put my two cents on this subject as a baddie .

Content that is force on players to get through storyline should stay easy. Telling players to get good, or wanting to get better is silly. MMOs are design for all types of players, some players don't really care to get better. We have no right to judge them when they are doing content they are force to do in story. Now if they are doing tough content that requires them to be better, and they know they are bad. Ya, they should not be doing that content and I can understand why people get upset.


Myself, I just play have fun. If I don't like skills a class has, I don't care if it is better dps or not. I won't use them. If a aoe rotation is clunky, I just won't use it. That is me, and noone pays for my account and has no right to tell me to do it unless I am doing content that is not forced on me to keep on with the story.


Also does this game not have tools for you to get around this problem? Make friends with people and make your own groups like in the old days? I might be old fashion in thinking this, but the convenience of push to play content comes at the cost of quality control of the players. So even I can't blame the bad players like myself too much.

[Lunavi]

Titania is a good example of that. Its tight dps check should in theory do a good job of weeding out the 0 dps healers, but in reality... there are some people who just do not take the hint. SE really needs to be less subtle about this. At some point people need to be explicitly told that (although it may have been watered down to one-button-spam) a healer is expected to fill every nanosecond they're not healing or dodging mechanics with damage. ABC needs to be drilled into them from level 1. A 73 trial is FAR too late.

Titania is NOT a tight DPS check in any plausible reality. I have been down to sub 1% with runs where DPS died left and right, which is where I feel EX is rightly located difficulty-wise as it isn't Savage, and all content shouldn't be Savage or Ultimates. EX are pretty good introduction content to handling mechanics.

EDIT: I do agree that we need with what you want Titania to be though and that we need something like that below Savage raids.