The "Wow Refugee's" impact on the FFXIV Community?

[Hyrist]

Let me ask you this.. Is it OK if I queue to Ala Mhigo with ilvl 270? We're still gonna clear the dungeon, there's no doubt about that. But do you consider it OK to do so?

Why are you asking for the physically impossible? Minimum ilvl is 280. If you're going to try to make a point, at least be factually acurrate. You can't queue below the minimum ilvl, and switching below it intentionally could be considered malicious.

There's a huge difference here. If you're acting malicious - no matter what side of the argument you're on - you're done in my book. If you're struggling to perform and are indignant about it, you're done. If you're seeing someone struggling, and you're being aggressive and negative about it, you're done.

Again, there is zero excuse for bypassing basic human rights and civility on account of a video game - To do so makes you the problem, regardless of any of the surrounding issues leading to that behavior.

If you're struggling or have play limits that are causing trouble for an encounter - acknowledge them and work on them if you can. If you can't understand some people consider performance to be a priority.

If you see another struggling, acknowledge that there may be circumstances beyond the players control and be understanding. If you can't reconcile the matter then part ways respectfully.

You deal with these matters on a case to case basis and you stop painting people or standards in broad strokes. This isn't rocket science people. Poor people are far worse to deal with than poor players. As far as setting the bar. That belongs to the host of the event, or the majority vote when matchmaking is used. Individual opinions spouted off on a forum aren't relevant and rarely play out as advertised.


That said, use of a website that utilizes third party tools to discriminate against players likely violates ToS, so do so at your own risk. I personally opted out. We have Stone Sky Sea for a measuring bar if one is needed for DPS output.

[Barraind]

The ironic thing.. is these players will put far more time into the game then those of us they call elitists. They'll play 3-5 hours a day 4-6 days a week. While once we've unlocked the raids we'll be pretty much playing 1-2 days a week for 1-2 hours at a time. Waiting for the weekly lockout. So much for 'hardcores' being no lifes.

Yuuup.

Had world firsts for 8? expansions in EQ, we raided 2-3 days a week for the vast majority of that, and outside Luclin (we eventually ended up splitting VT and 'everything in the game not inside VT except Seru (they couldnt kill seru)' with the other guild on our server who got in there, because people really didnt want to have to raid an extra full day when VT bugged out for the whateverth time) we had everything that dropped relevant items on farm.

"Casual" guilds were raiding 5 and doing half of the content.

It all came down to mindset. We expected people to be ready to start murdering stuff at raid start time. Period. Have consumables, be AT the first raid zone/instance starter, be ready AT raid start time. Always. Raiding casually in games after that makes me hate raiding. "Start time is 9, which means people will start logging in about 9ish and stop and get things for the raid and be there at 9:30 or so maybe most of the time, and then someone will afk for 10 minutes every hour and we'll have to wait on them to get back." NO. BAD. STOP. If you raid for 3 hours, you raid for 3 hours unless a major emergency happens. If you say "we start at x" that means "we hit the Join button at X".

[Alucard135]

Why are you asking for the physically impossible? Minimum ilvl is 280. If you're going to try to make a point, at least be factually acurrate. You can't queue below the minimum ilvl, and switching below it intentionally could be considered malicious.

There's a huge difference here. If you're acting malicious - no matter what side of the argument you're on - you're done in my book. If you're struggling to perform and are indignant about it, you're done. If you're seeing someone struggling, and you're being aggressive and negative about it, you're done.

Again, there is zero excuse for bypassing basic human rights and civility on account of a video game - To do so makes you the problem, regardless of any of the surrounding issues leading to that behavior.

If you're struggling or have play limits that are causing trouble for an encounter - acknowledge them and work on them if you can. If you can't understand some people consider performance to be a priority.

If you see another struggling, acknowledge that there may be circumstances beyond the players control and be understanding. If you can't reconcile the matter then part ways respectfully.

You deal with these matters on a case to case basis and you stop painting people or standards in broad strokes. This isn't rocket science people. Poor people are far worse to deal with than poor players. As far as setting the bar. That belongs to the host of the event, or the majority vote when matchmaking is used. Individual opinions spouted off on a forum aren't relevant and rarely play out as advertised.


That said, use of a website that utilizes third party tools to discriminate against players likely violates ToS, so do so at your own risk. I personally opted out. We have Stone Sky Sea for a measuring bar if one is needed for DPS output.

I missread the ilvl for that dungeon. Because there was a thread a while ago about someone complaining that they got kicked for having ilvl 270 in Castrum Abania I think. But it's good that you reminded me that you can switch below min ilvl. And yes, doing so is reportable and considered malicious. Just like taking your soul stone out. And that is to show the person I replied to that it's not a simple "avoid AOE do your 3 combo, clear content and you're done" case as they have implied.

[DynnDiablos]

My only issue with ex WoW players is they complain a lot and want to change the game to reflect the very game they left. This will never be WoW and thank god for that. Please don’t come into our territory and then demand it play like games of your past.

[Mingqin]

My only issue with ex WoW players is they complain a lot and want to change the game to reflect the very game they left. This will never be WoW and thank god for that. Please don’t come into our territory and then demand it play like games of your past.

This is true, complaining however cannot be entirely attributed to them. Activision Blizzard were the one's buckling to complaints over the years which lead to more and more complaints, I don't believe SE will listen to them though so you likely have nothing to worry about.

[DynnDiablos]

This is true, complaining however cannot be entirely attributed to them. Activision Blizzard were the one's buckling to complaints over the years which lead to more and more complaints, I don't believe SE will listen to them though so you likely have nothing to worry about.

This is where I’m thankful that the game is developed in Japan. They don’t buckle like western developers.

[Nedkel]

My only issue with ex WoW players is they complain a lot and want to change the game to reflect the very game they left. This will never be WoW and thank god for that. Please don’t come into our territory and then demand it play like games of your past.

This is what flows through my head whenever i see someone complaining about game having too many buttons or being too hadd or too slow.
They ruined their game and comes here to complaing again...

[luicei375]

Never played WoW, but from stories I've gathered, it sounds like another usual place on the internet.

While XIV may have more nicer players in general, that doesn't mean the community as a whole are all like that. If anything, people are much more inclusive and close-knit, and are more prone to ganging up when there is someone that they don't like, even if it means to have a little disagreement. If you call someone out for being bad over there, it's a normal day. Here, it is possible that you can get into trouble if said person can't even take constructive criticisms. Because of the updated ToS, people become way more passive-aggressive as a result.

In other words, I'd say it's moreso a different kind of toxic. But, as long as you have some self-control and focus more on playing the game, you should be fine.

Do you think the mass influx of "Wow Refugee" players will positively or negatively effect the community as a whole? And how so?

Because of the previous line I mentioned above, the "influx" of WoW players won't change much on the community we have here, since the "different toxic" is still dominant.

As a FFXIV player what are things that you would like to see change (or not change) within the game?

People being more open to outsiders instead of faked niceness, constructive criticisms, and actually encourage extended conversations via /shout instead of seeing it as a way of harm.

What is one thing you would want to say to "Wow Refugee's" before they enter the community?

Please be careful of carebears and Tumblr-dwelling safespacers, and if you must help someone for improving at playing the game, be careful of your word choice. People may be nice to new players and people outside their "friend circles" on the outside, but that isn't always true. Don't be afraid to ask, but don't expect people to always respond, either.

Other than that, good luck in your adventures.

[Skyclaw726]

Because content has changed since 2.0. It's not the same difficulty. Savage has changed from 2.0, and we have ultimate fights added in SB. With higher difficulty, carrying your own weight is essential to the group's success. Even if you clear said content, those that are under performing need to be addressed.

Those hiding their logs the majority of the times are doing so because it's bad. There are exceptions, but those are rare. If we assumed there was no FFlogs, then what would prevent a player that barely cleared a savage fight and isn't good about its mechanics from joining a farm group that want to clear the fight fast to prog the next fight? They wouldn't know, until they pull multiple times and realize that they're bad at this fight. And in the case of door bosses, if they passed that boss, then that's more time wasted. And if the other kicked that player or called him bad, they'd come here to the forums and say "WoW refugees are toxic and elitist!"

Let me give you an example of an actual log I saw. A party farming Suzaku EX managed to kill it 3 times with two DPS performing even lower than the tanks in some of the fights. They barely killed it before enrage at one fight because the SAM and the BLM had were pulling 7k+ DPS those fights (the SAM had a gold parse and the BLM a purple parse in some of them). So according to your logic, this OK because they killed it. And if they were to tell the other two DPS to carry their own weight, they will be toxic, right?

Anything outside of high end duties is fine if they were to follow your baseline. But in high end duties, then be prepared to be criticized and asked to actually put in the effort.

I'm unsure what you mean by hiding logs. The only logs i have are what other people uploaded, i don't use a parse and never will and even if i wanted to i play on PS4 so i can't.

[Avidria]

That is what basic means.
Basic means basic.

"Actually using all of the tools available to them appropriately at least most of the time" *is* min/maxing.

Side note:
I have tested this, by the way, the basic dodge three hit (depending if AoEing or Single Targeting) works for every dungeon so far 1-70.

That is not what min maxing is at all. As someone who's dabbled in mythic and Savage raiding in both WoW and here, it absolutely is not.

Min/maxing is trying to get the absolute highest possible potential out of your class. On the extreme end, that means theory crafting the heck out of exactly what stats you should use in every situation, exactly when you should use each ability at any given moment in a fight. Even without going to the extreme, it means taking the time to really learn and understand your kit and your class and exactly what the optimum use of your abilities is to maximize your and your raid's dps, taking into account variations based on the fight itself.

Basic is knowing your 1-2-3, and also knowing what your other buttons do and actually using your buffs/oGCD/etc abilities. Basic is putting in more than the absolute minimum effort.