WHM DPS needs to stay this high.

[347SPECTRE]

I just want to reiterate something to add to the original point: the less healing that a given encounter requires, the more it favors White Mage DPS. If we assume Savage content will be more difficult than relatively simple Extreme trials, we can expect WHM's relative DPS advantage to shrink as they are pushed to use more GCDs on healing.

Also, it's silly to compare top parses. Nobody is giggling and bringing a DNC to buff their AST to see if they can out-DPS the poor NIN, but I bet someone's doing that with WHM. The 75th percentile of parses is much more representative, and, surprise: the gaps are less egregious there than between the top parses. To wit, WHM-SCH is ~700 DPS at the average of the 75th percentile on Innocence, but the gap between top parses is ~1700; with WHM-AST it's 1500 and 2300, respectively. Losing a few Glares per minute to healing will close that gap even further. SCH is fine, aside from its usability issues.

The thing is, the devs specifically stated that savage will be at creator difficulty, which isn't that much more difficult than current EX trials.

[EaMett]

You are only stuck though if you are looking for diversity among dps skills. Currently the healers healing kits and styles are different.

Not really accurate. The spread is different among healers but they've also homogenized the healing. I don't want to go on a three page rant about game design and homogenizing classes for balance but essentially the healers "think" the same in the sense that you have almost 1:1 equivalency between healer skills. Switching classes is pretty much akin to using the equivalent heal on that class for that moment in the fight (moreso than in SB might I add). The only thing that changes is the healing spread.

You also can't look at diversity from a healing or DPS perspective in a vacuum. It's a whole. It used to be that the APM and time spent healing or dpsing, or handling downtime mechanics(cards) in a fight, etc.. would vary a lot based on the healer you were playing, introducing genuine diversity among healers. Currently it charts the same regardless of who you play. They even aligned low dps cost healing among healers (aka, ogcd healing skills or gcd healing skills that keep dps uptime > afflatus). The AST card system is a bit of an outlier but their (SE) desire to make it the same is the reason why they dumbed it down to a glorified and more tedious CS.

I mean SE haven't even been shy about it. They outright said they wanted the healers to be as much the same as possible with only slight variations for identity.

Putting aside the fact that this disregards basic game design theory for a sticky game like an MMO, they should at the very least make healer gameplay less clunky (aka: less gcd clipping, better weaving tools) and increase the skill spread a bit (just a bit) to give career healers some options. We've been asking for the former for at least 2 years at this point on WHM and instead they gave the same issues to SCH (while slightly correcting the issue for WHM with afflatus, sadly Ruin II remains underwhelming). A stack dump and potentially a ruin II buff would work wonders for SCH as far as clunkiness is concerned. And here we are asking for just that.

[LariaKirin]

so that why so many cry about SCH now ?

You'll find out if you get rid of some of that salt and actually read their complaints.

[Kinks]

so that why so many cry about SCH now ?

Scholar main here-

TL;DR Yay WHM! I am all in favor of you guys getting buffed and finally getting some love!
Boooo Scholar nerf x.x give me back more buttons to click because its kinda crap rn


I'm QQing because my class got hella gibbled. Our dps rotation got littled down to just using broil,
the AoE (Art of War) that they gave us to replace Miasma (AoE with DoT) has a higher MP cost, less damage output, no CC, nothing- so unless you're reaaally bored you probably don't click it. (animation is cool tho 10/10). and the biggest thing for me is that we had Aetherflow that we could put stacks into mana regen and also now we have to wait until IN combat to use Aetherflow;
it is glitchy at best, and sometimes the CD greys out before the mob is actually dead which can really screw up your healing.

Our fairy is 100% AI controlled- I am not too bugged by this, however~ she glitches out a lot, sometimes not healing, being desummoned randomly, and sometimes not- we also lost a skill called rouse which boosted her healing which was really nice in tight situations when other CDs got burned or people walked into things they shouldn't. So that 'party trick' is gone now too.

As a Scholar, (main reason I looked at this thread) I wanted to show my support that I DO NOT want WHM to get nerf'd- I am really happy that they got the buffs and dps that they did! (I used to play WHM and it was tricky!) - however, to gibble Scholar like they did was pretty crap. I'm playing it out because I hope they give us back our skills and its less boring. ><

Most of us aren't asking for dps buff or stronger heals to out-do WHM- we just want our utility back, and to feel exciting again.

edit: I picked Scholar with the understanding WHM was the stronger healer, but that scholar was a little more advanced with DoTs/Shields, kinda a harder healer, but engaging since I came from playing BDO (reee night and day let me tell you!).

[Dynia]

Scholar main here-

TL;DR Yay WHM! I am all in favor of you guys getting buffed and finally getting some love!
Boooo Scholar nerf x.x give me back more buttons to click because its kinda crap rn


I'm QQing because my class got hella gibbled. Our dps rotation got littled down to just using broil,
the AoE (Art of War) that they gave us to replace Miasma (AoE with DoT) has a higher MP cost, less damage output, no CC, nothing- so unless you're reaaally bored you probably don't click it. (animation is cool tho 10/10). and the biggest thing for me is that we had Aetherflow that we could put stacks into mana regen and also now we have to wait until IN combat to use Aetherflow;
it is glitchy at best, and sometimes the CD greys out before the mob is actually dead which can really screw up your healing.

Our fairy is 100% AI controlled- I am not too bugged by this, however~ she glitches out a lot, sometimes not healing, being desummoned randomly, and sometimes not- we also lost a skill called rouse which boosted her healing which was really nice in tight situations when other CDs got burned or people walked into things they shouldn't. So that 'party trick' is gone now too.

As a Scholar, (main reason I looked at this thread) I wanted to show my support that I DO NOT want WHM to get nerf'd- I am really happy that they got the buffs and dps that they did! (I used to play WHM and it was tricky!) - however, to gibble Scholar like they did was pretty crap. I'm playing it out because I hope they give us back our skills and its less boring. ><

Most of us aren't asking for dps buff or stronger heals to out-do WHM- we just want our utility back, and to feel exciting again.

edit: I picked Scholar with the understanding WHM was the stronger healer, but that scholar was a little more advanced with DoTs/Shields, kinda a harder healer, but engaging since I came from playing BDO (reee night and day let me tell you!).

I just can't ... if you speak only about dps rota and you call it complex I have no question for you.
All you done before was puting 2 dots on mob then bane and cast shadowflare and misama II, that all, if you call this complex then well no comment here ... ofc for its aoe pulls you don't need bane for bosses

if you want look how complex dps rota look go check game like aion on sorc with CC tree, every situation needed use diffrent skill on diffrent class, that what I can call complex dps dota not SCH here on PVE when you do SAME thing ALL the time

[ForteNightshade]

so that why so many cry about SCH now ?

Because we've arguably replaced SCH with WHM now, thereby defeating the whole point. WHM does almost everything better now except utility. While SCH can keep up in the healing department to a certain extent, primarily due to them having nothing to spend their AF on except healing, AST is borderline useless. It offer crap utility, weaker healing, struggles with MP and has abysmally low DPS.

[Dynia]

Because we've arguably replaced SCH with WHM now, thereby defeating the whole point. WHM does almost everything better now except utility. While SCH can keep up in the healing department to a certain extent, primarily due to them having nothing to spend their AF on except healing, AST is borderline useless. It offer crap utility, weaker healing, struggles with MP and has abysmally low DPS.

see how whm felt from HW to Shb ? Its finally time WHM to shine
You still have op shields that why you have save slot on raids

[BunnyChain]

Chain Stratagem doesn't even remotely make up for the 800 DPS difference.

And your estimation for its DPS contribution is?

Losing a few Glares per minute to healing will close that gap even further. SCH is fine, aside from its usability issues.

That is assuming the co-healer doesn't heal at all?

[ForteNightshade]

see how whm felt from HW to Shb ? Its finally time WHM to shine
You still have op shields that why you have save slot on raids

Yes, which is why emulating that poor design is really dumb. The devs should recognize what didn't work before not punish AST/SCH because they were better than WHM once upon a time. Considering the overwhelming dislike both jobs are receiving near universally, if SE doesn't address some of these core issues, you'll see more and more people abandon healers entirely.

[Ftail]

And your estimation for its DPS contribution is?

What is your estimation for its DPS contribution?