Scholar 5.0 Discussion

[Connor]

I feel like Scholar’s performance particularly is hard to gauge through averages, because I think the recent changes have actually created a bigger skill gap between ‘average’ players and ‘top tier players’, at least in terms of healing efficiency and taking advantage of DPS openings.

It’ll be interesting to see how they decide to approach this. If they buff Scholar / Astrologian damage to White Mage’s levels healers will contributing huge amounts of damage to raids. If they need White Mage’s Damage, then what is it supposed to bring?

Also as an aside, I still it’s sad that performance in the ‘healer’ role is measured purely by DPS and how much healing you can get away with skipping. I feel like the devs intention was to have healers judged for more than just how much DPS they even, even if their intention didn’t match their actions

[Billythepancake]

On a personal note:
Buffing the potencies does not help eliminate the inherent issue of SCH right now which for me is - boredom.
They could buff my Broil potency to 500, (making SCH laughably OP) I would still not touch it, because they sucked the fun out of the job.

Exactly this. I wish people would realize the issue with scholar right now isn't "muh deeps", its that we're not doing anything. Like, I'd be 100% okay if they cut broils potency in half if it meant I could have more dots and energy drain back. Scholar right now honestly feels like you could play it on an Atari controller. Most people just want to press more buttons, we dont want to be reduced go mindless 1 button spam.

[KatCnaa]

Did anyone else have issues with the lvl 80 solo duty with Giott?
I found myself really wishing the shields showed for NPCs same as in the party list. It seemed like Giott wasn't getting the benefit of any shields, though I could see they were getting galvanize.
I have long wished that NPCs were added to the party bar in solo instances b/c targeting them using controller is a pain, unless you switch target filters, and even then can still take too long.

[Hatstand]

Exactly this. I wish people would realize the issue with scholar right now isn't "muh deeps", its that we're not doing anything. Like, I'd be 100% okay if they cut broils potency in half if it meant I could have more dots and energy drain back. Scholar right now honestly feels like you could play it on an Atari controller. Most people just want to press more buttons, we dont want to be reduced go mindless 1 button spam.

I remember back in Heavensward I used to rant to my friends (in trying to convince them to sign up) “I have 30 moves keybound and I use all of them!” Those were the days. Admittedly I haven’t levelled my SCH to 80 yet, but it feels so hollow now. WHM feels a little better, and I think I’ll be switching to that for this expansion (pending further updates to healing). Lilies seem much less clunky than Aetherflow, and small things like weaving assize into your rotation, and actually having dps utility in the form of a stun, make it feel slightly better. Plus, you can use presence of mind as a dps spam or a heal spam, which represents an actual decision.

I think the thing that bothers me most about these changes is the stripping back of decisions. Cleric stance used to do that really well. You want to dps? Well, you’ve got to commit to it, because being in it at the wrong time can cost you. Energy drain, too. If you use that Aetherflow stack for some dps and mana, that’s one stack that’s not available for healing. Giving us choices like that allow us to actually think about what we’re doing, rather than just learning how to optimise our healing then spamming broil.

(Admittedly, there’s still some decision making. If I put up this sacred soil now, I won’t have an emergency lustrate up my sleeve, etc. But given the way Aetherflow stacks are working at the moment worrying about running out doesn’t really seem like a thing)

Also, what they did to Selene is just insulting.

[galbsadi]

You can’t really compare a 5 ogcd healing kit with a 9 ogcd kit (+embrace) in the way you did. Especially not with the current content.

“Median/average” is also a bit tricky to handle because it’s often the result of people who haven’t optimized. You really need to go into higher tiers of play to see the job potential.

Anyways what I’m trying to say is that FFXIV is a game where optimized play means healing as little as possible. There’s little value in comparing players to see who parsed the highest HPS

The overall picture is however telling of how high current whm dps is.

I feel like Scholar’s performance particularly is hard to gauge through averages, because I think the recent changes have actually created a bigger skill gap between ‘average’ players and ‘top tier players’, at least in terms of healing efficiency and taking advantage of DPS openings.

It’ll be interesting to see how they decide to approach this. If they buff Scholar / Astrologian damage to White Mage’s levels healers will contributing huge amounts of damage to raids. If they need White Mage’s Damage, then what is it supposed to bring?

Also as an aside, I still it’s sad that performance in the ‘healer’ role is measured purely by DPS and how much healing you can get away with skipping. I feel like the devs intention was to have healers judged for more than just how much DPS they even, even if their intention didn’t match their actions

That's why I also included 99% comparisons, where the differences are MORE stark and contrast than at the median.

Fine, you can say "it's not a good comparison to say that the median is 14% worse at DPS, you need to look at the top"...and I'll remind you...the top is 21% worse at DPS.
You can say "it's not a good comparison to say that the median is 3% worse at healing, you need to look at the top"...and I"ll remind you...the top is 8% worse at healing.

[LariaKirin]

That's why I also included 99% comparisons, where the differences are MORE stark and contrast than at the median.

Fine, you can say "it's not a good comparison to say that the median is 14% worse at DPS, you need to look at the top"...and I'll remind you...the top is 21% worse at DPS.
You can say "it's not a good comparison to say that the median is 3% worse at healing, you need to look at the top"...and I"ll remind you...the top is 8% worse at healing.

The SCH healing kit is strong because of its versatility, not because of raw numbers.

[Rubiss]

I remember back in Heavensward I used to rant to my friends (in trying to convince them to sign up) “I have 30 moves keybound and I use all of them!” Those were the days. Admittedly I haven’t levelled my SCH to 80 yet, but it feels so hollow now. WHM feels a little better, and I think I’ll be switching to that for this expansion (pending further updates to healing). Lilies seem much less clunky than Aetherflow, and small things like weaving assize into your rotation, and actually having dps utility in the form of a stun, make it feel slightly better. Plus, you can use presence of mind as a dps spam or a heal spam, which represents an actual decision.

I think the thing that bothers me most about these changes is the stripping back of decisions. Cleric stance used to do that really well. You want to dps? Well, you’ve got to commit to it, because being in it at the wrong time can cost you. Energy drain, too. If you use that Aetherflow stack for some dps and mana, that’s one stack that’s not available for healing. Giving us choices like that allow us to actually think about what we’re doing, rather than just learning how to optimise our healing then spamming broil.

(Admittedly, there’s still some decision making. If I put up this sacred soil now, I won’t have an emergency lustrate up my sleeve, etc. But given the way Aetherflow stacks are working at the moment worrying about running out doesn’t really seem like a thing)

Also, what they did to Selene is just insulting.

What they did with Selene was the very definition of lazy. To think they actually have the nerve to say that they spent extra time on the healers. Their solution to balancing was so terrible, even to this day I am mystified. Like they took the healer with the easiest and lowest APM (in terms of DPS) rotation and copied and pasted it across the entire role and called it balanced.

This would be like if Square copied and pasted Black Mage's rotation onto every magical DPS, made them within 30 potency of each other and called it balanced. How come SMN gets three unique egi? Why not give them a base egi and simply have Titan, Garuda and Ifrit be a glamour?

[galbsadi]

The SCH healing kit is strong because of its versatility, not because of raw numbers.

Thing is, it's not THAT versatile, really.

Sure, WD can be cast while moving, but loses the initial heal of MedicaII and has less potency after the pet tax and also has a 60s cooldown and also requires a fairy to be active and not doing something else and risks being lost to animations due to some recent bugs. (Both are now on the GCD, FYI.)

Lustrate is basically Afflatus Solace with 100 less potency and sharing resources with SS and Excog, rather than just Indom (Afflatus Rapture).

Indom is basically Afflatus Rapture with 100 more potency but sharing resources with SS and Excog, rather than just Lustrate (Afflatus Solace).

SS is arguably stronger than Asylum (10% dmg reduction instead of 10% bonus healing received), but comes with a shorter duration and shares resources with Lustrate and Indom and SS.

Excog is a slightly more powerful Tetra that you precast instaed....but comes at the cost of sharing resources with Lustrate and Indom and SS.

Aetherpact is a more powerful Regen, but comes at the cost of burning resources that require Aetherflow charges that you only generate by using the above abilities while Eos or Selene (not Seraph) are available and in combat and in range. (If any of those aren't true, using Aetherflow abilities does not built Aetherpact ability)....oh, and it can also only be on one target at a time and prevents that fairy from doing ANYTHING else while active.

Aetherflow is like part of an Assize that doesn't do damage and doesn't cure party members but restores a bit more MP and has a longer cooldown and activates the SCH equivalent of the Lily gauge that WHM don't need to do anything to activate....oh, and it can also only be used in combat, too.

Adlo is a potentially slightly more powerful Divine Benison that has less of a cooldown but requires a cast time and is weaker if not timed properly, or a less powerful Cure II that doesn't have a Freecure buff but can be cast a bit earlier.

Physick is literally a less powerful Cure that also doesn't have the chance to make Cure II free.

Succor is a potentially slightly more powerful Medica that is weaker if not timed properly, or a much weaker Cure III with a wider range.

Fey Illumination is a less powerful Temperance, unless Seraph is out, in which case it's still a less powerful Temperance.

Fey Blessing is basically Plenary Indulgence except for cast later, and costs Aetherflow, and requires the correct fairy out.

Dissipation makes SCH heals kinda like WHM heals somewhat for a bit in potency, but at the cost of no fairy (read: no gauge buildilng) and provides a bit more access to the pull of shared abilities, but on a 3m cooldown.

Seraph is a 2m cooldown that makes fairy healing almost as strong as a regen with some minor shields and enables two basically free succors within a roughly 15s timeframe (after accounting for animations)...so it's kinda like a weaker Presence of Mind, perhaps?...of course without any DPS utilization if raw healing isn't needed.

Emergency tactics basically converts the shields into raw healing, making them more like traditional WHM heals, but on a 15s cooldown.

Recitation is basically Thin Air but only for healing abilities, and (i'll have to check back again tonight, but IIRC also only works for one cast)

[Does not exist] is like Benediction.

There's a reason the raw numbers are higher, and it's quite arguable to say that it's because of WHM versatility.

[Hatstand]

What they did with Selene was the very definition of lazy. To think they actually have the nerve to say that they spent extra time on the healers. Their solution to balancing was so terrible, even to this day I am mystified. Like they took the healer with the easiest and lowest APM (in terms of DPS) rotation and copied and pasted it across the entire role and called it balanced.

This would be like if Square copied and pasted Black Mage's rotation onto every magical DPS, made them within 30 potency of each other and called it balanced. How come SMN gets three unique egi? Why not give them a base egi and simply have Titan, Garuda and Ifrit be a glamour?

I would imagine that summoners still have 3 unique egi (which each have 3 moves plus the autoattack) for the same reason that they’re balancing the number of melee DPS, ranged physical DPS, and magical DPS jobs, when I haven’t heard any plans to buff out the completely empty categories of melee healer and physical ranged healer.

Also, on the topic of summoners, since scholar loses almost everything from arcanist, running low level content on a scholar is now pretty much a bio/ruin spam. The fairy can pretty much manage the healing on its own at that level, so you don’t have much else to do. If they wanted to differentiate us from summoners they could at least replace the 5 moves we lose with more than the one new move we get. I can only imagine it must be a pretty lousy feeling for a new summoner to finish their level 30 arcanist quest to get bane only to lose it as soon as they finish their level 30 scholar quest and equip their job stone.

[Rubiss]

I would imagine that summoners still have 3 unique egi (which each have 3 moves plus the autoattack) for the same reason that they’re balancing the number of melee DPS, ranged physical DPS, and magical DPS jobs, when I haven’t heard any plans to buff out the completely empty categories of melee healer and physical ranged healer.

Also, on the topic of summoners, since scholar loses almost everything from arcanist, running low level content on a scholar is now pretty much a bio/ruin spam. The fairy can pretty much manage the healing on its own at that level, so you don’t have much else to do. If they wanted to differentiate us from summoners they could at least replace the 5 moves we lose with more than the one new move we get. I can only imagine it must be a pretty lousy feeling for a new summoner to finish their level 30 arcanist quest to get bane only to lose it as soon as they finish their level 30 scholar quest and equip their job stone.

Uh, not to disillusion you, but running any content as Scholar is Biolysis/Broil 2 spam. This isn't going to change in Savage, nor will it change in Ultimate.