[SPOILERS]Considering that new Minfilia feature.

[Vidu]

But that flashback with Thancred and awakened Minfilia clearly says that there was some sort of romantic feelings. He wanted nothing more than for her to return, I dont think it was just him being overprotecive. He cared for her and this care was more then just how you care about your daughter.

...is there actually anyone you would care more about than your child, though?

I would also like to point out that afaik there is no mention of Minfilia loving Thancred back - the two of them arent the great lovestory in Eorzea, by far not!

Little Edit: Also... talking about how the Scions have no real connection between each other seems rather "unfair" to me - Alisae and Alphinaud are twins (how much closer could they be? and no, please dont go the romantic route again...), Papalymo and Yda were obviously pretty close aswell and all Scions together decided to protect Lyses secret. Urianger and Y'shtola can seem rather distant, agreed - though its worth noting that Uriangers "connection" was killed before we had a chance to properly meet her...
All in all I have to say that I prefer the connections - or the lack of connections - between the Scions over some forced love-story. Seriously, Thancred decided to raise Minfila after it was basically his fault that her father died. It would have been pretty, pretty weird if they'd actually fallen for each other and went on to develope a romantic relationship. Seems kinda wrong to me - "Alright, I raised you like a daughter, but now you're 20 years old and therefor old enough to do... other stuff with me!" (And the other way around - Minfilia suddenly turning her "father" into a boyfriend seems equally wrong).

I got the impression you missunderstood why Thancred misses her so much: He feels that he failed her and wants to make up for it. He doesnt want to marry her...

[Antoine_Lenheim]

I got the impression you missunderstood why Thancred misses her so much: He feels that he failed her and wants to make up for it. He doesnt want to marry her...

Okay, its even better then. How nice that Thancred failed her again, now letting her die for good. What a "great" outcome. But of course, its not him who failed her this time, it was her decision to willingly give up on her life and make that new and loved by all Ryne live. Embarassing. I just cant say enough how disappointed I am with how they handled Minfilia, never giving her a chance to redeem herself, never giving her a chance to actually live with this "one must absorb another" bullcrap.

And sure, if you are so determined in not accepting that his feelings were romantic -- fine but it doesnt matter what feelings he had, he wished for her to live, to be able to see her again and make up for his fails. It was all in that flashback. You can say he didnt have any romantic feelings with which I can argue but he felt something. Something that even made him rush all the way to save Ryne and I believe the true reason why he did (I think he just wanted it to look this way that he saved her because he didnt want her to be trapped) it is because he hoped that Ryne would resemble his Minfilia or at least someday his Minfilia will wake up in her. And she did for a mere minute. Straight after she went to slumber in Ryne again, Thancred emotionally distanced himself from her, meaning that he didnt really cared about her at all, only wanted his Minfilia to wake up in her.

Which brings us to bad character development. Thancred reaction after Ryne obtained Oracle powers looked like they want to patch holes. Why would he be so nice to Ryne when she was a reason why one he wanted to protect so much died? It was not convincing at all seeing him being so nice to Ryne when he was so butthurt thoughout all story and now boom, he suddenly becomes the best dad ever? How cheap.

And how cheap it was to not even giving old Minfilia a chance. Of course with all the unjustified hate shes been getting and how she lost all value to the plot they would want to get rid of this character. And you can even say that they chose the most "painless" variant. But they just want you to think like it. They introduced a new Minfilia, a cute child with whom you just cant not fall in love with, told us a story about all previous Minfilias that gave up their life fighting for this world, gave her a will to live and make this world a better place, even made her damsel in distress, made us care and feel for her -- and then made us think that old and hated Minfilia giving up her life so that Ryne can live and save this world is a right thing to do. But they only want you to think like it. And judging by this thread, they succeeded pretty well.

[Cybylt]

I got pretty angry with Thancred in that flashback since it came off like he cared more about his lost pride over his past failures and had no respect for the decisions she was making. She committed herself to this path and was effectively dead a long time ago, and was choosing not to live a selfish existence as the ascians do and all he has to retort is "But what about me?"

[EdwinLi]

Which brings us to bad character development. Thancred reaction after Ryne obtained Oracle powers looked like they want to patch holes. Why would he be so nice to Ryne when she was a reason why one he wanted to protect so much died? It was not convincing at all seeing him being so nice to Ryne when he was so butthurt thoughout all story and now boom, he suddenly becomes the best dad ever? How cheap.

You are wrong about Thancred should blame Ryne for Minfilia's death. Ryne should not be blamed because as the storyline already stated, everything involving Minfilia was always out of Ryne's hands and she was always condemned to always take the responsibility of Minfilia's actions despite not being her own choices until that moment when Minfilia willingly gave Ryne her freedom from her fate of being "Minfilia"

Through this story I have seen that Thancred struggle was more than just about wanting to getting Minfilia back but the reality that in the 5 long years he has been in the First that there will be no Happy Ending for one of them. Thancred stuggled to make a choice between wanting Minfilia back but sacrificing Ryne's future or giving Ryne the choice to choose her own path in life and follow Minfilia's wish to give her a life that she willingly choose.

Over the years Thancred would have certainly started out as seeing Ryne as a shadow of Minfilia but through the time spend Thancred began to see Ryne as a second daughter figure (with Minfilia being the first daughter figure) thus made the struggle to choose even harder because he wanted both of them to live but he knew by forcing the choice on to Ryne it would not only be against what Minfilia wish but also meant the death of one of them because of his own selfishness. Thancred came to accept that there was no other way in the end as Minfilia was always too kind hearted to take Ryne's life and thus he said his final goodbye after his battle with Ran'jit because he knew Minfilia has long accept that her time in the world was up and she wanted to give Ryne her chance in life while also being a better Father in her life where she failed to do so with Minfilia. Though considering how Minfilia treats Ryne, Ryne can be considered more as Minfilia's daughter or little sister as Minfilia has always watched over Ryne and guided her even in small whispers.

Minfilia also had long since struggled to find a solution to this issue for over 100 years since she appeared on the First but all Oracles of Light resulted in either Minfilia having to take over their body only to die in battle with a Sin Eater or for them to try to live a live of their own but forced into the role again and then Minfilia took over their bodies again only to die again. She has tried for over 100 years with countless past Oracles but only one conclusion remained being that only one Soul can remain alive and the other must die. Thus Minfilia made the choice that it must be decided by one of the Oracles and herself once the time has come.

[Vidu]

Okay, its even better then. How nice that Thancred failed her again, now letting her die for good. What a "great" outcome. But of course, its not him who failed her this time, it was her decision to willingly give up on her life and make that new and loved by all Ryne live. Embarassing. I just cant say enough how disappointed I am with how they handled Minfilia, never giving her a chance to redeem herself, never giving her a chance to actually live with this "one must absorb another" bullcrap.

And sure, if you are so determined in not accepting that his feelings were romantic -- fine but it doesnt matter what feelings he had, he wished for her to live, to be able to see her again and make up for his fails. It was all in that flashback. You can say he didnt have any romantic feelings with which I can argue but he felt something. Something that even made him rush all the way to save Ryne and I believe the true reason why he did (I think he just wanted it to look this way that he saved her because he didnt want her to be trapped) it is because he hoped that Ryne would resemble his Minfilia or at least someday his Minfilia will wake up in her. And she did for a mere minute. Straight after she went to slumber in Ryne again, Thancred emotionally distanced himself from her, meaning that he didnt really cared about her at all, only wanted his Minfilia to wake up in her.

Which brings us to bad character development. Thancred reaction after Ryne obtained Oracle powers looked like they want to patch holes. Why would he be so nice to Ryne when she was a reason why one he wanted to protect so much died? It was not convincing at all seeing him being so nice to Ryne when he was so butthurt thoughout all story and now boom, he suddenly becomes the best dad ever? How cheap.

And how cheap it was to not even giving old Minfilia a chance. Of course with all the unjustified hate shes been getting and how she lost all value to the plot they would want to get rid of this character. And you can even say that they chose the most "painless" variant. But they just want you to think like it. They introduced a new Minfilia, a cute child with whom you just cant not fall in love with, told us a story about all previous Minfilias that gave up their life fighting for this world, gave her a will to live and make this world a better place, even made her damsel in distress, made us care and feel for her -- and then made us think that old and hated Minfilia giving up her life so that Ryne can live and save this world is a right thing to do. But they only want you to think like it. And judging by this thread, they succeeded pretty well.

To me your reasoning still sounds as if you're extremly set on this whole "Thancred and Minfilia could become the greatest couple in Eorzean history"-path that just doesnt hold up.

Since I only have limited time right now, I only want to tackle a few points:
1) Of course he felt something for Minfilia - it just wasnt romantic. Its kinda fitting that a few of the Shadowbringers bosses are named for different concepts of love - you might want to read up on that! But not all love is "Eros", "Philia" and "Storge" are some form of love too. And I dare say that all Scions wished for their friend Minfilia to live, but for the others it was easier to accept that she is now gone because they werent like a parent to her nor did they kill her father and failed to be a good step-dad to her.
2) Honestly, I'm not even sure if Thancred is supposed to be the "boyfriend/husband"-type. Hes a womanizer in the end - in Shadowbringers end aswell, considering how he (or Urianger?) mentions something about some girls he went out to drinks with. BUT hes trying to be a father-figure and since he failed in that regard with Minfilia, he can consider Ryne a new chance now - to make up for hes failure with Minfilia and to show that hes grown and learned from his mistake. Hes now ready to take care of someone and that someone is Ryne.
And maybe he only took her in at first because he was hoping to get Minfilia back, but that doesnt mean that his reason cant change and he cant become to actually like Ryne for herself - as a "daughter", not a girlfriend!

Personally I dont understand why you wanted them to work on old Minfilia so badly - they would have had to re-write that character completly to make her into an actual character - yes, I'm one of those people who never liked her, because she was nothing more than eye candy to me and not a candy I enjoyed, so to speak. Just letting her die for good was the right way to go. Seriously, even if she had absorbed Ryne, do you believe she and Thancred could have become a couple? After she was basically part of a primal thats supposed to be the Will of The Planet for we-dont-even-actually-know-how-long? After all that she must have seen and done? After all the lifes she has lived - and ended because of that, all the Rynes before the Ryne we have now?
To me this wasnt a cheap way out - it was mercy, for Minfilia, for Ryne and for those of us who rejoyced after seeing her gone in Heavensward.
I personally dont like Ryne either, but at least she isnt just eye candy, she actually does things, has a will of ehr own (now) and might grow into a real character. Something Minfilia couldnt achieve anymore - at least not without making a 180° turn with her character.

We had the same with Yda, kinda: As most of the old Scions she was a pretty bad character, as in: not having a real or intresting personality. So she was replaced with Lyse, a blank slade - instead of needing to come up with a convulted reason why she suddelny has a character.

[NanaWiloh]

Depends on how you look at it I guess. I really liked her and I think that she didnt deserve the fate she gets and all the hate she gets. So its not the best thing for me.

But yeah, think I should quit moaning cuz changes nothing. Only changed that on the contrary of what they tried to do, they made me hate Ryne. For taking a part in killing character I liked.

Its not Ryne's fault though Minfilia had be gone for 100yrs by the time we arrived at the first. Minfilia was no different then Arbert a ghost who's only way to return to life is take anothers life.

[Scott]

I can feel you. Still hope they will find a Way to bring her back. I liked her since 1.0 and Im really sad she should be gone now forever.

[Antoine_Lenheim]

and was choosing not to live a selfish existence as the ascians do and all he has to retort is "But what about me?"

What is so selfish about just wanting to live? She said it herself in that flashback that she has been storing power that needed for her rebirth but should Ryne decide to live on and fight for this world, she will use it to give her last powers she has.

And yes, I see nothing wrong about Thancred only caring for his wishes considering how much he cared about his Minfilia. Seems pretty normal.

Personally I dont understand why you wanted them to work on old Minfilia so badly - they would have had to re-write that character completly to make her into an actual character

Minfilia was an actual character, she just recieved so much hate and they handled her so badly that they decided to get rid of her by first making her a Hydaelyn vessel with no sensible reason and then killing her for good. They ruined it themselves and then took the easy way. I just wanted another chance for her cause I liked this character and I felt its so unfair to have such a cruel fate. And chance for her rebirth was actually one of reasons Ive been so hyped about new expansion. Now it just become meh for me.

I can feel you. Still hope they will find a Way to bring her back. I liked her since 1.0 and Im really sad she should be gone now forever.

We can but pray, my friend.

[Vidu]

What is so selfish about just wanting to live? She said it herself in that flashback that she has been storing power that needed for her rebirth but should Ryne decide to live on and fight for this world, she will use it to give her last powers she has.

And yes, I see nothing wrong about Thancred only caring for his wishes considering how much he cared about his Minfilia. Seems pretty normal.


Minfilia was an actual character, she just recieved so much hate and they handled her so badly that they decided to get rid of her by first making her a Hydaelyn vessel with no sensible reason and then killing her for good. They ruined it themselves and then took the easy way. I just wanted another chance for her cause I liked this character and I felt its so unfair to have such a cruel fate. And chance for her rebirth was actually one of reasons Ive been so hyped about new expansion. Now it just become meh for me.

And I see nothing wrong with Ryne wanting to live - seems pretty normal to me too?

I'm also legit curious in regards to what you liked about her character? What was there to like about her - except her looks, maybe?
To me shes never been more than some 1.0-leftover that didnt serve a real prupose within the story. I went about this in length a few weeks ago, but the short version is: She did nothing special, she did nothing at all, actually - except getting herself kidnapped twice and making us come to her rescue. All she does can be handled by Tataru (calling us on a linkpearl etc.) and having her disappear didnt influence the story at all. There is nothing she did that made her special, yet we were made to believe that somehow she was this very important and special person.
Making her Hydaelyns vessel is actually the first time that claim was fullfilled. Could it have been fullfilled another way? Certainly. But that would have required her to be more than this pretty blonde in pink leatherclothes and become an active part of the story, not just your next questgiver if no one else showed up naturally.
But that would have required a change in her character long ago and would have lead to someone who might have still shared her looks but not the little "personality" she had - because that would have to been overwritten with an actual character. Just how it happend with Ryne.

[kidalutz]

Okay, its even better then. How nice that Thancred failed her again, now letting her die for good. What a "great" outcome. But of course, its not him who failed her this time, it was her decision to willingly give up on her life and make that new and loved by all Ryne live. Embarassing. I just cant say enough how disappointed I am with how they handled Minfilia, never giving her a chance to redeem herself, never giving her a chance to actually live with this "one must absorb another" bullcrap.

And sure, if you are so determined in not accepting that his feelings were romantic -- fine but it doesnt matter what feelings he had, he wished for her to live, to be able to see her again and make up for his fails. It was all in that flashback. You can say he didnt have any romantic feelings with which I can argue but he felt something. Something that even made him rush all the way to save Ryne and I believe the true reason why he did (I think he just wanted it to look this way that he saved her because he didnt want her to be trapped) it is because he hoped that Ryne would resemble his Minfilia or at least someday his Minfilia will wake up in her. And she did for a mere minute. Straight after she went to slumber in Ryne again, Thancred emotionally distanced himself from her, meaning that he didnt really cared about her at all, only wanted his Minfilia to wake up in her.

Which brings us to bad character development. Thancred reaction after Ryne obtained Oracle powers looked like they want to patch holes. Why would he be so nice to Ryne when she was a reason why one he wanted to protect so much died? It was not convincing at all seeing him being so nice to Ryne when he was so butthurt thoughout all story and now boom, he suddenly becomes the best dad ever? How cheap.

And how cheap it was to not even giving old Minfilia a chance. Of course with all the unjustified hate shes been getting and how she lost all value to the plot they would want to get rid of this character. And you can even say that they chose the most "painless" variant. But they just want you to think like it. They introduced a new Minfilia, a cute child with whom you just cant not fall in love with, told us a story about all previous Minfilias that gave up their life fighting for this world, gave her a will to live and make this world a better place, even made her damsel in distress, made us care and feel for her -- and then made us think that old and hated Minfilia giving up her life so that Ryne can live and save this world is a right thing to do. But they only want you to think like it. And judging by this thread, they succeeded pretty well.

Dude Thancred even outright said he wasnt into Minfilia like that back in ARR. that he loved her like a daughter. how stubbron are you to forget that?