Revelations from SHADOWBRINGERS

[Alleo]

About Tenzen:

Can he truly be a past us? We know that there is only one soul of us on the source and the rest is on the shards. He cant be us imo because his soul was still with the dragon when it was released, so we never would have been reborn thanks to that. Or he had to be only a small part of his soul still lingering but why would that be when he seemingly sealed his aether with it?

About Varis:

I think there is a very big chance that he was the one that ordered the use of the black rose in the future we changed. We would have never went to the first thus Zenos and other characters would probably not be were they are right now and with our power we surely would have changed the battle more towards Eorzea thus Garlemald using the chemical weapon sooner.

Varis was ready to slay all beast tribes (genocide ftw), raised the monster that was Zenos, worked together with Elidibus even after all the talk about "humanity making their own destiny", was ready to destroy all shards and rejoin them because he wanted to be a perfect being (which I doubt he would even be part of since he is seemingly missing the echo) and for that was ready to bring huge calamities onto the source..he also had his moment were he showed his evil face including the evil aura..some hoped that this was Solus but we know now that Solus was not there anymore and that this was truly Varis. So yeah him ordering the use of Black Rose makes the most sense..so he kinda did use genocide and killed a lot of his own people with it. He is a villian to the end and I see it quite fitting that he dies through the hand of his son even if I still wished that Zenos would not play any big role in the future arcs..

[Keever]

Was there ever any touching upon the fact that the statues in Ampador had an uncanny resemblance to some of the sin eaters?

After defeating the winged lion boss in Mt. Gulg, Alphinaud comments that he should like to investigate possible connections between it and "the statues on the Source" if you have him as a trust party member.

[JeanneOrnitier]

Regarding Tenzin...

A while ago I pondered the possibility of the Warrior of Light being like the Avatar--same soul reincarnated into new bodies. With that in mind we could be a reincarnation of Ajora and Tenzin, the same soul passed down through the ages. The new knowledge--that we are indeed a fragment of an Amaurotine soul (possibly one of the 14) seems to support this theory.

This is the conclusion I came to after the stuff in the last zone too. Though I think that Ramza was also called a WoL, and his soul was clearly separate from ours. I might be wrong about him being one though.

[Rufalus]

I'm so glad this expansion finally got back to the heart of the story. For so many years we lacked the most basic information on the origin of our enemies. Had the other ascians in the past been as open about their motives as Emet I may have sided with them . Sometimes when I'm depressed I think about real life as an ascian would, that there are so many problems in the world wouldn't it be convenient to raze it and begin anew (with the guiding hand of the intelligent elite survivors).

Even if ascians don't do the genocide thing, there would just be auto death and pain due to the affliction of mortality and aging. To restore a world of harmony and happiness, isn't it worth the cost? However... how do we know the rejoining would be a success? I may have missed something in the story; did they explain why there was an apocalypse with demons and rivers of blood? That whole thing could just occur again after the rejoining so it's unfortunately not very convincing to back the ascian plan of a better world. The need for primals could just arise all over again and end up dividing the world into reflections again lol.

[myahele]

After years we finally got to learn The Truth.

So even if the worlds have been rejoined and people are made complete, Zodiark will still need sacrifices to fuel its power and maintain order. I wonder if the people who summoned Hydaelyn altered the methods used to summon Zodiark so that she doesn't temper people?

Also, I remember Lahabrea talking about a growing imbalance affecting the world and that if it were to continue the laws of existence will be warped. He says the root was Hydaelyn, but I'm wondering if it has something to do with what was happening in the earth's core that eventually gave rise to panic and accidental creation of beasts? It was Zodiark that ended the Calamity and fixed the world, but now he's been sealed by Hydaelyn and the world's fragmented; makes me think that whatever caused the Calamity will rise again.

[Remedi]

They didn't, Emet confirms that whoever summons something enters in simbyosys with it and trying to resist the psychic power of something as big as Zodiark will fail

[Alleo]

I'm so glad this expansion finally got back to the heart of the story. For so many years we lacked the most basic information on the origin of our enemies. Had the other ascians in the past been as open about their motives as Emet I may have sided with them . Sometimes when I'm depressed I think about real life as an ascian would, that there are so many problems in the world wouldn't it be convenient to raze it and begin anew (with the guiding hand of the intelligent elite survivors).

Even if ascians don't do the genocide thing, there would just be auto death and pain due to the affliction of mortality and aging. To restore a world of harmony and happiness, isn't it worth the cost? However... how do we know the rejoining would be a success? I may have missed something in the story; did they explain why there was an apocalypse with demons and rivers of blood? That whole thing could just occur again after the rejoining so it's unfortunately not very convincing to back the ascian plan of a better world. The need for primals could just arise all over again and end up dividing the world into reflections again lol.

But with siding with them you are making the conflicts even worse. Then it wont just be a war, it will be a mass genocide of whole worlds. Razing something to the ground is also in no way a good decision. Not only will you kill massive amount of people that were good but you would also need to take away their will otherwise it will just happen again. Heck even the ancient ones werent without problems and those intelligent elite survivors just created something that needed mass amount of sacrifice too..

Some might see it as a better way to live without death (but the Ancient ones are just never aging, they can still die) but who is to choose that for the whole life? I dare to say that there are also quite a bit people that are fine with how life is and do not want to live forever.

[NoblePigeon]

Emet-Selch related question:

I'm getting the impression that the body (or rather the "image") Emet-Selch has wasn't someone else's and is in fact his original (which has quite a bit of implications for Garlean purebloods). Or at the very least is a form that wasn't stolen from someone else. Is anyone else getting that impression too?

[Cilia]

Sorry for taking so long to get to it - I had luckily gotten Early Access starting on the Friday my vacation was supposed to, but then we had to work Saturday, and I had D&D Sunday, and after doing through Holminster Switch as DRK I picked up GNB on a whim and fell in love with it... so I didn't get actually moving until Monday, and it took a day or so to get up to speed. (Renzokuken combo tho!)

Anyway.

They did say there would be answers and, having broken free of 1.0's pall at last, this would be closer to a traditional Final Fantasy game in tone than previous expansions and I gotta say, I was not disappointed. All of the hints and suggestions finally came together to a very satisfying conclusion, and things got real heavy toward the end. It was a great way to lead the Ascians to a semi-conclusion, and while their plight was understandable, at the end of the day their actions were / are still unconscionable - made only worse by the fact they don't see anyone who isn't a whole / perfect being from the time of Amaurot as actually alive.

Either way, interesting to learn that Varis wasn't just talking out his ass when he was ranting about the "original, perfect master race"... but if not for G'raha's intervention, Black Rose would have been used on his order. Not that it matters now, given Zenos got his body back and did him in!

Other than that... holy hell there is a lot to unpack, but given we now have answers surrounding Hydaelyn and Zodiark and the Ascians, the driving question has been answered. Now though, the catastrophe that decimated Amaurot needs to be explored... cuz it could come back...

I'll just respond to stuff from others, because there's just so much.

[Cilia]

Emet-Selch related question:

I'm getting the impression that the body (or rather the "image") Emet-Selch has wasn't someone else's and is in fact his original (which has quite a bit of implications for Garlean purebloods). Or at the very least is a form that wasn't stolen from someone else. Is anyone else getting that impression too?

Erm, if anything, Emet-Selch's "true form" would be similar if not identical to the phantasmal Amaurotines, or otherwise his base Hades form (as his second Hades form is hopped up on power from other Ascian souls).