The Healer Double Standard

[braxberry]

I miss Heavensward healing. You had to stance dance to do damage. This really helped alleviate the boredom of being able to heal everything (On WHM) with only medica 2 and OGCD skills

Amen, sister.

[DiznypKC]

That's kind of the problem don't you think that the Job that you should be having fun HEALING with is more interesting when doing damage than the actual job? If they overhauled the healers it means they had to have increased the content in which healing is actually more of a necessity. At least that is my current belief until I actually see the new content and experience it I cannot say either way which is why I'm saying all the doomsaying and complaining is putting the cart before the horse. Yeah you might even be making educated guesses but in the end thats exactly what it is educated guessing there's no statistical data to back it up until the content and changes go live.

Instead all any of you do is make a new complaint thread daily over the same exact thing then the same twenty people respond to it another twenty or so just look at it and shake their head and the rest just ignore it. Get your heads together consolidate make one thread with constructive feedback once things go live otherwise it's just bashing your head on the wall over and over again. Maybe I dont know start the consolidated thread with exactly WHY it's so boring to heal and try to work out how to make the bit more exciting then how to pick back up the dps buttons etc.etc.

The more you say stuff like this, the more you’re going to hear the same reply.

If the developers want healers to heal more, that needs to be reflected in the ENCOUNTER DESIGN. Over simplifying the DPS kit of the healer jobs comes off as more of a reprimand for not playing the job the way they think you should. If it were truly a balancing issue, they would have given White Mage some raid utility and called it a day.

But no, all evidence suggest that we are being strong armed into becoming heal bots, and a lot of us are not okay with that. We have to clear solo content too, you know. We want to be challenged and engaged during long encounters.

I see that you joined the forums in 2017, so you may have missed the differences in healing from ARR to HW to SB. But every expac launch led to serious issues with the healers. Frankly, this is nothing new, we’re just REALLY over it at this point.

[LashL]

I see that you joined the forums in 2017, so you may have missed the differences in healing from ARR to HW to SB. But every expac launch led to serious issues with the healers. Frankly, this is nothing new, we’re just REALLY over it at this point.

I'll never forget yoshi p saying he was afraid to see what people could do with there "big" ast change in hw , ala 20% balance gee i wonder what they were going to do with it. xd

[KokonoeAiyoko]

It really is hilarious how people grasp at straws in comparison to tanks and healers that they are the same kind of thing to attempt to justify their complaints. This is nothing new however, this has gone on since 2.0 days.

Dislike healer changes? Sure. Saying this is like a tank removing DPS and making it more enmity based is laughable.

[Deceptus]

It really is hilarious how people grasp at straws in comparison to tanks and healers that they are the same kind of thing to attempt to justify their complaints. This is nothing new however, this has gone on since 2.0 days.

Dislike healer changes? Sure. Saying this is like a tank removing DPS and making it more enmity based is laughable.

I think I clearly articulated what I thought was a double standard and instead of arguing against my positions, you post this tripe.

Everything you post across the various topics has no real value other than "No because reasons without actually listing anything".

Arguing with an idiot is like playing chess with a pidgeon. It'll just knock over all the pieces, crap on the board, and strut about like it's won anyway.

[Elgeron]

I think I clearly articulated what I thought was a double standard and instead of arguing against my positions, you post this tripe.

Everything you post across the various topics has no real value other than "No because reasons without actually listing anything".

I'll say don't bother with her, did the same in other topics, never addresing the arguments and twisting arguments to make value attacks instead of actually explaining or argumenting her points.


Now, one thing I see, which I think is related to the double standart issue, is that people seem to be misinterpreting the issue; Healers don't want to DPS. The issue with healers was never about doing DPS, the removal of the DPS skill themselves isn't the problem, because then, why is AST and WHM complaining too? Their DPS skill are just the same as before. No, the problem is that healer classes have been striped of half of their kit, while WHM hasn't gained any. With this I mean what they did when soloing or when there was downtime. Is not that Healers want to be "green DPS", is that DPS was the way we contribute to the party, how we excel at our jobs by both keeping the party alive while contributing as much as possible. In the AST case, it wasn't so much DPSing as it was buffing. WHM was considered by many the "entry" healer class because its heals were powerful, but lacked any extra mechanic to worry about. SCH was the one which had the most interesting DPS rotation, wich was still quite simple, yet it interacted with our healing skills (using ED to fill the Fairy gauge and dump Aetherflow to avoid wasting it while helping conserving MP). I think this twisting of what the healer issues are hurts the discussion quite a bit.

[Deceptus]

Now, one thing I see, which I think is related to the double standart issue, is that people seem to be misinterpreting the issue; Healers don't want to DPS. The issue with healers was never about doing DPS, the removal of the DPS skill themselves isn't the problem, because then, why is AST and WHM complaining too? Their DPS skill are just the same as before. No, the problem is that healer classes have been striped of half of their kit, while WHM hasn't gained any. With this I mean what they did when soloing or when there was downtime. Is not that Healers want to be "green DPS", is that DPS was the way we contribute to the party, how we excel at our jobs by both keeping the party alive while contributing as much as possible. In the AST case, it wasn't so much DPSing as it was buffing. WHM was considered by many the "entry" healer class because its heals were powerful, but lacked any extra mechanic to worry about. SCH was the one which had the most interesting DPS rotation, wich was still quite simple, yet it interacted with our healing skills (using ED to fill the Fairy gauge and dump Aetherflow to avoid wasting it while helping conserving MP). I think this twisting of what the healer issues hurts the discussion quite a bit.

DPS is the end all metric because there is no way to effectively gauge HPS other than everyone is alive and the encounter is done. In fact, overhealing is generally considered a bad thing because your GCD's would be better spent elsewhere. And the only other place to spend them as a healer is on DPS. If the developers gave us more mitigation that would be awesome.

Make Protect a short term defensive CD. Turn Apocatastasis into Shell, give it to the healers, and make it a magic defensive CD. Remove everyone's self heals so healers actually have something to do. Ramp up the enemy damage a bit (but not too much or casuals will scream).

One of the main reasons I made this thread was very simple:

If tanks had a 1-2 combo for massive enmity (from level 2 to level 80), an AOE, and nothing but Defensive CD's (not offensive CD's) they'd be rioting. This is the exact situation healers will find themselves in come shadowbringers.

[Yuyuka3]

To all those "I'm a healer, I shouldn't have to DPS!"-healers out there.
One of the very earliest CNJ quests, I think it was the level 15 one(?), outright told you that your job as a healer is not merely filling up HP-bars mindlessly - it is also about knowing when to heal at all, and when it's fine to do other things. Since that other things is, in most cases, DPS... no matter what the devs try to tell us now, they quite literally told us "hey, it's not cool to stand around idly, you really should do something with your time if there's nobody to heal" ever since ARR.

Also, to those refusing to deal damage in dungeons, especially as WHM. Remember that Holy has a pretty neat stun attached to it. So, by DPSing, you are actively protecting the tank from taking damage; damage you would otherwise need to heal up. So stating that it's your job to heal is kinda superfluous if by DPSing instead, you would not only make things faster, but also, at the same time, protect your group from taking damage in the first place. Food for thought.

Get your heads together consolidate make one thread with constructive feedback once things go live otherwise it's just bashing your head on the wall over and over again. Maybe I dont know start the consolidated thread with exactly WHY it's so boring to heal and try to work out how to make the bit more exciting then how to pick back up the dps buttons etc.etc.

Right, good idea. I mean, the Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread we had for Stormblood helped a lot with telling the devs what we needed back then! Wait... no, it didn't. It was just over 350 pages worth of posts wasted.

[Deceptus]

Right, good idea. I mean, the Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread we had for Stormblood helped a lot with telling the devs what we needed back then! Wait... no, it didn't. It was just over 350 pages worth of posts wasted.

What kills me the most about those massive response threads is how an SE rep never even shows up to say, "Hey, we see you have some concerns and here's what we're planning to do" or "Here's is our thought process on why we did that"

Just doing that would help alleviate a lot of problems.

[ADVSS]

It really is hilarious how people grasp at straws in comparison to tanks and healers that they are the same kind of thing to attempt to justify their complaints. This is nothing new however, this has gone on since 2.0 days.

Dislike healer changes? Sure. Saying this is like a tank removing DPS and making it more enmity based is laughable.

I too was a PLD main at the start of 2.0