WoW this, WoW that: Why are FFXIV forum users so obsessed with WoW refugees?

[Lium]

As a GW2 refugee (yes we exist), i don't understand all this hate for WoW refugees.

Is it just as a scapegoat? Do you find it that hard to believe FFXIV could have its own toxic players?

We've had WoW refugees in GW2 since a long time and GW2's community was never "WoW toxic, GW2 good", instead, they always welcomed them and sometimes even went as far as gifting them an expansion.

I've met a bunch of "WoW refugees" in FFXIV and they are actually funny and down-to-earth people. Obviously, experiences can vary for everyone, but i feel like all this hate is unwarranted from the so-called and proclaimed "nicest MMO community".

Also accurate:
https://media.giphy.com/media/Ypb8iBVXY577W/giphy.gif

This is a thing? Never noticed it, tbh.

[Mugear_bahamut]

How does he sound butthurt? He summed up pretty well what's happening. There is no toxicity in his post. Did you mean to quote someone else?

I was "replying" to the poster. Not mocking him.

[OhnoozeMyToes]

I'm a WoW refugee. I'm also an older family guy who is pretty casual and generally friendly to everyone.

I can see why some may not be crazy about picking up WoW players. There are a lot of turds that play WoW but the more people you have the more turds you will have as well.

The good thing is that most of them will go back to WoW before too long I think. Me...na, I think I'm completely done with WoW.

[zaviermhigo]

I think its simply a lot of vets in XIV are also FFXI vets, when FFXI was relevant WoW was THE mmo. So the FFXI v Wow mentality started up around the time both games existed simultaneously. Its very present in our mind as an mmo. Now a days, a lot of MMO vets in general are old WoW Vets. GW2 isn't a relevant game to me now, its just a really easy mmo that I think does a good job of introducing mmos to people. While I love GW, GW2 was just meh for someone who was into older school mmos. GW2 population was never, and will never be as huge as WoW's was. WoW being the most popular mmo of all time is going to hold a reputation, good or bad, with people who have played mmos for a while. We could list myriad mmos, and go on for days, but the fact of the matter is: Less population came from that mmo to FFXIV than WoW, by the sheer nature of how many people have played WoW.

Now add in the fact that WoW is going through changes. Current WoW made some changes people didn't like, and some people don't really want to go back to classic WoW. So they are currently trying out other mmos. Just like in between XI and FFXIV and again in between 1.0 and 2.0, I tried out other mmos. If they choose FFXIV so be it. They will adapt. I don't think most of the players who played WoW were "meanies" lol, most of the WoW vets I've met who came to XIV were just honestly shocked how nice it was and loved it. That niceness came from FFXI, not the other mmos we could spend all day listing which don't really matter to the game population.

A much bigger problem than "WoW refugees" is boosted players. Maybe some are WoW Refugees, idc. SE needs to add something more than the lowbie "learning" things to help boosted players, cause they are god awful.

[Kaethra]

As someone who's technically a EQ vet, that means I've been playing these games for nearly 20 years now. I've seen toxic and I've seen misunderstandings. I can safely say I know the difference.

This is one of those cases.

Here's usually what seems to happen. Its usually in the duty roulette of some sort. People aren't going cross world and starting stuff in /say. So yes its in the roulette.

Someone will eventually do something someone doesn't like. Maybe a tank pulls too much for someone's preference, someone doesn't heal when someone else thinks they ought to be healing.

Instead of talking it out, they play this weird game of passive aggression. In their mind, the slight was done in order to be offensive. When in reality, the tank that pulled too much may think he's trying to do the group a favor, the healer not healing likewise is just trying to help, or whatever happened, happened because someone either was ignorant, new, or what not.

So when the passive aggression begins, its a slight back to someone else who misconstrues it as something else again and you've got a toxic endeavor by both parties. Well all know how this could have been avoided. Communication.

I've seen some of this happen in Labyrinth of the Ancients last night. Some peeps die on Behemoth and when they're running back, people are complaining they aren't being quick enough. These aren't WoW refugees that are complaining. The WoW refugees haven't done that fight yet and are trying to learn. And they are being rushed by FFXIV vets to hurry up.

It was also a FFXIV vet who decided to tank the final boss away from the center, thus making one alliance's melees and tank run 2x as far to get back to the rune.

There's no need for that.

The game lets you know if people haven't done an instance. Your rewards go up for having such a newbie. Also it puts a returner or new player icon next to their name. When you see that, it means even though they may have done the content before. You need to give them a quick primer on the fight so they don't screw it up.

Some players come back after years and so the fights are no longer fresh. I saw a tank the other day who would have been top geared in patch 2.2, except that isn't top gear anymore. So while they were well experienced and geared at one time. I'm sure they forgot most of what they used to do. It has been several years after all.

Communication and patience will eliminate 90% of toxicity. And for God's sake don't make assumptions. If someone is doing something crappy, be patient and talk with them. Don't patronize, don't be passive aggressive. In my experience many players do what they do to be helpful as best they can. A little politeness will go a long way.

[Ronduwil]

i don't understand all this hate for WoW refugees.

Is it just as a scapegoat? Do you find it that hard to believe FFXIV could have its own toxic players?

There's been a mass exodus from WoW. I, too, am a WoW refugee, so I completely understand why they're coming here. A percentage of players from any given population is going to be toxic. So when you have millions of WoW subscribers entering the game, you can expect thousands of toxic players to come along with them. It's not that most WoW players are toxic. However, the sheer quantity of new players coming from WoW creates a situation where many of the new toxic players come from WoW. The 500 nice players who just joined your community are not going to be as noticeable as the 50 jerks who came with them.

[ForteNightshade]

This kind of generalization doesn't help your argument. I like not having dps meters. Meters feed toxicity. I say this as someone who used to raid hardcore in WoW for years and spent more time watching the meter than watching the fight. Meters are not the only method of measuring improvement, they're just the laziest way to measure it.

How do you figure? When it comes to job optimization and improving at your specific role, parses are a necessity. Every guide for every job made available comes from players using a parser to determine the best potential outcome. At a basic level, sure if the boss dies faster than you've grown accustom to, you may be improving. Likewise, if the fight seems less difficult, it could be a sign of improvement. Unfortunately, you have no way of actually knowing that. It could be you... or it could be you're in a party with far better players than you were two weeks prior. Another factor to keep in mind is parsers aren't all about damage. You can gauge literally everything from them.

[Krojack]

The ubercasuals in this game need a boogeyman so they don't feel any guilt when they get kicked for being dead weight in group content.

So the elitist in this game feel the need to kick someone because they aren't pulling all the trash up as far as they can.. got it.

[StarRosie]

So the elitist in this game feel the need to kick someone because they aren't pulling all the trash up as far as they can.. got it.

Eh, best to just ignore folks like that. They're few and far between and really not worth the time or energy.

[Sasarayu]

The toxicity in WoW is usually just rudeness in general, a lot of the time by younger people.

The toxicity in FFXIV on the other hand is malignant with deliberate precision and the most toxic players are the ones I label "confucianists" based on their belief in a fixed social hierarchy that must not be upset. If you don't prostrate yourself before these self proclaimed mentors with Jesus complex you will know true toxicity, believe me.

WoW doesn't even have anything remotely similar to the confucianists and their toxicity.

One reason the FFXIV community is so offended by WoW refugees is because of the pseudo elitist pedantery described above with first time MMO players or theoretically minded people with the charisma of dried up wallpaper glue deluding themselves they are doing something highly advanced and refined that requires years of training and that they are in fact high generals moving pieces on a strategic map while entertained by the finest geishas. The WoW hate becomes a sort of self glorifying xenophobia which is in fact just ignorance.