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  1. #61
    Player Seraphor's Avatar
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    Feb 2018
    Posts
    4,620
    Character
    Seraphor Vhinasch
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6 View Post
    healers are suppose to be girly just like tanks are suppose to be manly lol
    That's sexist.
    (1)

  2. #62
    Player
    Archwizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    A café at the edge of the universe
    Posts
    1,130
    Character
    Archwizard Drake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphor View Post
    That's sexist.
    Yes it is. Unfortunately, it's also descended from a repeated trope stemming from classic societal standards for the ideal masculine and feminine roles: that men are strong, rugged protectors who know neither pain nor feeling, while women are demure caretakers whose beauty must remain untarnished by the wages of war.
    Nordic tradition, while progressive in the sense of training shieldmaidens for battle and depicting their Valkyrie psychopomps as lady warriors, also considered magic to be women's work (literally relating it to the practice of "weaving" fate). I shouldn't need to point to the many western cultures that traditionally use men (even young boys) as front-line warriors, either.

    The exception primarily being traditions of wizened wizards and sages, ie Merlin and his predecessors and offshoots. Most (though not all) necromancers and warlocks in media are depicted as power-hungry men fueled by envy, vengeance or nihilism. I just chose she/her pronouns in the OP to break that trend.
    (1)

  3. #63
    Player
    Archwizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    A café at the edge of the universe
    Posts
    1,130
    Character
    Archwizard Drake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    I've been finding more and more lately that the biggest advantage of a Necromancer from a healing standpoint isn't the minion variety, but rather the variety of undead it could turn people into to increase their survivability, beyond Undead status.

    Vampires? Let the raid leech enemy health by attacking.
    Ghosts? Send everyone into the astral plane to avoid incoming hits.
    Liches? Apply Phylacteries to shrug off a death blow.

    While I'm sure this disappoints some like Shurrikhan, there isn't much need to give pet variety when they primarily exist to be ritually sacrificed rather than offer any significant DPS.

    Although, the thought has crossed my mind that sacrificing a certain number of minions could lead to summoning something bigger like a Bone Dragon (from all of the bones you leave behind, for instance), but that hasn't really panned out too well; the main gimmick with Bone Dragons in XIV seems to just be their ability to repeatedly resurrect, which would actually lose effectiveness if we assume the recent announcements for pets would apply to a hypothetical Necromancer. Even just the aspect of having a dragon minion doesn't really offer much in terms of support, and the NCM already has plenty of damage tools, particularly with regard to other healers...
    (0)

  4. #64
    Player
    Fellgon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    419
    Character
    Tempest Moon
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    the idea its good but necromancer are the dead lord char, they kill stuff e create skeletons, and zombies...not healing. Dark Knight are there for the evil schemes and dark spell.
    (1)
    Last edited by Fellgon; 06-02-2019 at 11:35 AM.

  5. #65
    Player
    Fellgon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    419
    Character
    Tempest Moon
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurelius2625 View Post
    Just make a non girly healer ffs, please.

    No fairies, twirly stuff, or dresses for dudes.
    I know what you mean!
    (1)

  6. #66
    Player
    Saefinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,673
    Character
    Yesunova Hotgo
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    I have mixed opinions. I like the creativity behind the spells and a "dark" healer would be fine in my books. But Necromancing and the undead to me feels overdone in fantasy games, like it's so many different places and not something I'd want the next healer to be. I like that FFXI chose Puppetmaster instead of Necromancer because whilst perhaps filling a similar role, it was a bit different. I get this is a different take on the Necromancer theme, but I might like the idea better if it was its own thing rather than take on the undead and be a necromancer. There is some room for it within FF titles, zombification is a status effect you can apply, but a lot of the soul eating, life siphoning, self harm and darkness surrounds Dark Knight and I think they've already got some of that niche already. Also, I get an FF flavour of Necromancer would feel different regardless (maybe a change of name would sound better? I dunno), and ties to Edda and some of the Mhachi stuff might be cool.

    But the sad bit is if SE did introduce this, much of the uniquness you've suggested wouldn't probably not exist. I realise that probably sounds a bit a healer salt from me, but so far the healing aspect in general in FFXIV hasn't had a lot of uniqueness between them. Though I'd love for the next new healer to have that kind of level of uniqueness - and for the current ones to also have their own uniqueness more defined.
    (1)

  7. #67
    Player
    Saefinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,673
    Character
    Yesunova Hotgo
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurelius2625 View Post
    Just make a non girly healer ffs, please.

    No fairies, twirly stuff, or dresses for dudes.
    I'd like more dresses for dudes, less genderlocked gear would be nice.

    But mine often looks like a Pirate. I'd like a proper pirate hat for mages.

    I get maybe the desire for certain styles of mages (nowt wrong with that), but I didn't think Scholar was particularly effeminate, they're military tacticians who empower and train with marines. And some of the skills have been reworked to look a little more 'tactical'. It seems the hang up is just over the faerie, but I thought having a chick hanging around with you all the time was pretty emasculating.

    I can get maybe the magical-girl like twirling of White Mage & its flower power being effeminate and the AF of Astrologian (but other than that AST isn't really effeminate, or masculine, just fairly neutral).
    (0)

  8. #68
    Player
    Archwizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    A café at the edge of the universe
    Posts
    1,130
    Character
    Archwizard Drake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Saefinn View Post
    -snip-
    A lot of this is understandable, I think. However, saying a job is "overdone" is a poor deterrent since that same phraseology could be applied to many different fantasy archetypes, like knights (PLD), priests (WHM), assassins (NIN) and wizards (BLM).
    For starters, it's moot considering that regardless of an archetype's popularity, there will always be those who gravitate towards it; personal indifference does not indicate or negate others' fondness or excitement.
    Further, while necromancy may be "overdone", the scope of its potential is so broad that each version can be a completely separate take while still containing the same general themes. Some variants focus on being micromanage-y swarm specialists, others on debuffing and throwing DoTs while one pet does the work, others on exploding corpses and throwing bones. In this case, the selection of healing and survivability spells fundamentally set it apart while still fitting within the theme.

    Bear in mind, the Necromancer is a job that has precedent within FF; its key feature in FF5 was that it always had the Zombie status effect active, but it was otherwise just an advanced Black Mage or Summoner who learned spells just like a Blue Mage. Bear in mind however, that the Time Mage was also once a status effect-oriented job with Gravity attacks and no healing potential whatsoever, and now we have the Astrologian.
    As far as "taking the same idea and making it not undead", the only other realistic option for many of these spells would be giving us a potential Voidsent-based job (turning players into various demons instead, perhaps with some Vincent Valentine flavor), which I would both imagine would be a lot harder to get off the ground than necromancy, and generally be more flavored towards DPS given the Voidsent we know of. (I also vaguely recall mention of it being unlikely for us to ever receive a transformation-based job given things like the inability to show off the art team's assets, though I may be misremembering.)
    We already have BLM to cover the "dark" caster, as you said we have DRK for a "dark" tank, so it's about time we receive a "dark" healer (especially with Shadowbringers now bringing us up to 4 tanks, 4 melee, and 3.5 casters).
    (0)
    Last edited by Archwizard; 06-04-2019 at 09:48 PM.

  9. #69
    Player
    Typhoria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    170
    Character
    Typhoria Nightwish
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 80
    Why not just Plague Doctor/Chemist? Large part of it would be creating various flasks for several different purposes without interfering with the lore.
    (0)

  10. #70
    Player
    Bright-Flower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    2,828
    Character
    Nyr Ardyne
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    I have a hard time imagining a necromancer without undead minions to summon or a variety of nasty plagues/debuffs etc to use. So I don't think a traditional necromancer would work well as a healer. I also don't generally think of a necromancer as healing anything without a cost. Maybe 'transfering' life harming one foe to heal another. But I really doubt SE is going step that far out of the box for a fourth healer to have a healer who heals via dpsing.

    I think necromancer would work best as a casting dps if they decide to add a fourth one.
    (0)

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