Will bard lose it's identity/class fantasy?

[Samsta]

So most of us probably know what "class fantasy" is. It is mostly used in WoW so we probably should use the word "identity" here. It is what your class is supposed to do/feel and what makes it unique.

Bard's identity is supposed to be ranged dps with group buffs in form of songs. While buffing has never been the core of the job, it has always been a strong part of the job that makes it stand out. In 2.x and 3.x bards had their more traditional songs, sure, there were only 3 of them, but they were all relevant and they were strong part of the job's identity. In stomblood I think they nailed it, I think this is the best version of the bard, not only does it corporate the songs in a fun way to it's rotation, it also makes them buff your team. Despite all the basic songs having the same initial effect, troubadour makes the unique. Then you have foe's and battle voice on top of all the other support skills.

In 5.0 bard loses foe's, crit buff from songs and unique effects from troubadour and gets nothing new in terms of songs/support. In fact the basic songs are not really songs anymore, they have nothing to do with songs anymore, they don't buff your team in anyway, they might as well be shot weaponskills. Now your only song is battle voice, that's it really, troubadour is a copy paste skill that dancer and machinist also have. Why do this? Bard feels more like a ranger now.

[Raldo]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As long as the class is still fun to play, I don't personally care about "I'm called a Bard, but I'm not even remotely support anymore."

You could call the job a Plumber for all I care. I don't recall the job quests ever having much to do with music past lv50 anyway.

[Lemuel81]

So most of us probably know what "class fantasy" is. It is mostly used in WoW so we probably should use the word "identity" here. It is what your class is supposed to do/feel and what makes it unique.

Bard's identity is supposed to be ranged dps with group buffs in form of songs. While buffing has never been the core of the job, it has always been a strong part of the job that makes it stand out. In 2.x and 3.x bards had their more traditional songs, sure, there were only 3 of them, but they were all relevant and they were strong part of the job's identity. In stomblood I think they nailed it, I think this is the best version of the bard, not only does it corporate the songs in a fun way to it's rotation, it also makes them buff your team. Despite all the basic songs having the same initial effect, troubadour makes the unique. Then you have foe's and battle voice on top of all the other support skills.

In 5.0 bard loses foe's, crit buff from songs and unique effects from troubadour and gets nothing new in terms of songs/support. In fact the basic songs are not really songs anymore, they have nothing to do with songs anymore, they don't buff your team in anyway, they might as well be shot weaponskills. Now your only song is battle voice, that's it really, troubadour is a copy paste skill that dancer and machinist also have. Why do this? Bard feels more like a ranger now.

Well, that is what happens when they start to make jobs more and more homogenized. I would imagine the real culprit is the crowd complaining about Raid meta. Look at World of warcraft, classes are bland, boring and lacking any type of engaging gameplay. Anyone who thinks that FFXIV isn't headed to that direction, is going to be very surprised. Hopefully they do not butcher things as bad as Blizzard did with their game but I see it more and more each expansion. And no this is not a sky is falling post, I have been around MMOs long enough to see it happen exactly like that.

They try and keep jobs as simple as possible to please the folks who do not want to really put effort into the game, they try and keep jobs as close as possible so someone doesn't get their feelings hurt when they are not picked in a raid/PF. It will happen, has been happening for a long while now, just slowly.

[bass9020]

Bard has completely been gutted of any form of being a support or what we come to enjoy about bard. They could have made the songs still affect the party in some way but of course they took the easier route.

Im so tired of them fearing and what-ifing the playerbase and im tired of the playerbase whining about job metas. CREATE YOUR OWN GROUPS OR SUCK IT UP FFS.

[Kabooa]

has the playstyle changed at all?

No?

Then no.

[Kalise]

Bards already have very little emphasis on buffing with their songs.

Given that their songs are really just 3% crit auras.

Troubador was often noted by people to be annoying in how it was locked to specific songs for specific effects, it is now made independent of songs (But with emphasis taken away from it being as powerful for balance reasons)

Foe's was not only a problematic skill in terms of SE trying to balance it mechanically (I.e. Trying to manage uptime when people would be using Refresh and Mana Shift in order to extend its duration. Trying to deal with the issue of it aggroing targets it affected. It having an awkward cast time etc.) but also has balance issues in practice because of the issue regarding rDPS boost stacking which made Bard so dominant in the meta for literal years (If you go to FFlogs and look at party compositions, the only job with 100% representation in every party is Bard. Every other position has some off-meta jobs used on occasion. But Bard is consistently in every party).

Essentially, Bard can't be losing its identity of party buffing, because it hasn't really had one. It's mostly been focused around having a 3% crit aura and a 3% vulnerability debuff.

Hopefully they end up tweaking The Warden's Paean and Nature's Minne so they more useful skills so that Bards can provide some more utility support (While DNC focuses on having the combat support niche). Having an oGCD instant cleanse is neat, but heavily niche and lulhealingbuffs in a game where Healing is already so high that healers don't use healing skill very much.

[Cetonis]

Hopefully they end up tweaking The Warden's Paean and Nature's Minne so they more useful skills

Actually, development tooltips etc. pending, Minne -was- buffed, as it reads like it now affects all healing, and not just healing spells. So that could become a good bit more handy.

Warden's though... yeah. Hopefully with DNC existing and BRD losing so much of it's other support, they won't be afraid to give us a "saves healer an esuna cast" support benefit every so often.

[Berethos]

Why do this? Bard feels more like a ranger now.

It felt like that more in 2.0.

Our songs back then didn't feel good to use - two of them actively reduced our damage to use, and the other was just kind of...there to use. Outside of that we had a collection of arrow using abilities as our primary focus, through and through. 3.0 had largely the same design, except we had to deal with cast times for increased damage through the use of a "song" that was really a stance.

Making each song have an active impact on how the rotation plays and what abilities you're prioritizing during that 30 second window has done far more to solidify the class fantasy and identity than any extra buff it has provided to players.

Think about it like this - different songs in real life have different beats/cadences/rhythms, right? That is now reflected in how the job plays, which will continue into Stormblood. Wanderer's Minuet is that song with improvisation that builds upon itself (hence 1-3 stacks). Mage's Ballad has staccato, impactful freestyle moments that exist on their own. Army's Paean is the march that speeds up and leads to a job or run (reminds me of a marching/running cadence you'd hear on a military base) - even the name there, Paean, is a song of praise or triumph.

We then still have Troubadour, as well as The Warden's Paean, Nature's Minne, and Battle Voice as utility skills/buffs for helping others.

So if we're looking at the job beyond 1-3 things it brings to other every few minutes, then it's definitely not losing its identity or class fantasy in the slightest. And this may seem harsh, but anyone that is judging it on such a myopic view of the job doesn't understand the job.

Warden's though... yeah. Hopefully with DNC existing and BRD losing so much of it's other support, they won't be afraid to give us a "saves healer an esuna cast" support benefit every so often.

It...does? It either removes a detrimental effect, or creates a barrier that lasts 30 seconds that nullifies the next detrimental effect suffered (on a 45 second cooldown). If you use it regularly, you've basically only have a 15 second window during which Esuna would be required, at least for the first application (and situations where multiple applications occur hasn't proven to be that common).

Hopefully the "healing actions" on Nature's Minne though does refer to all healing sources - that doubling of the cooldown is gonna hurt if that's not the case.

[Connor]

I honestly agree with you.

Like, the changes aren’t bad and sounds fun mechanically, but then you consider the job they’re made for an think ‘does this really make sense?’

I wouldn’t even mind the removal of stuff like crit buff / requiem etc, if they had been replaced with other support abilities. Maybe more interesting ones, could consume soul voice gauge, increase soul voice gauge when used on party members, grants soul voice gauge when a buffed party member gets critical or whatever. There were a million and one ways for them to make both traditional Archers and traditional Bards happy

I get that Dancer is the support oriented ranged DPS that Bard always claimed to be, but surely it can still shine if Bard can support the party too?

And to be completely honest (I’m ready to be hung drawn and quartered for saying it) it really comes across to me like they just couldn’t be bothered balancing the two jobs together as supporter DPS and decided to give Bard the short end of the stick because Dancer is the new job.

[Raikai]

To be completely fair, BRD "support buff" songs right now are merely a small crit%. The actual personal effects of each songs are much more relevant, playstyle wise.

XIV's rendition of a bard doesn't do justice to other titles where the job appears. Here it's basically an archer with songs as a side thing. You spend more time worried about archery-esque GCDs and OGCDs than the 3 songs that we have to keep up... I always thought that they could change the direction and make it more Bard flavored, but I think that's almost impossible, since the job plays so good right now.