Why are people calling it “casualbringers” now?

[SaberMaxwell]

I honestly almost lost it when they tried to show the action trailer the first time. This was honestly my favorite Live Letter to date, purely because of the issues. Was some good schadenfreuder.

Agreed entirely. I hope the sound technician dude is okay, sometimes issues just crop up with technology. My static and I were watching the liveletter and it was a blast.

Even when our ears were blown out.

[Kuroka]

You are wrong.
A ton of people asked for removal of tank stances or any changes that will change these into something better.
Stances are limiting tanks skill design and are hard to balance.

Including me.

And i still dont see why stance dancing was needed. We are tanks, we are tanky, we have buffs. Like an toggle for MT/OT should do...

[Jeeqbit]

It will get rid of the unsustainable skill gap between those who stance dance and those who don't once and for all. There may always be skill gaps but they shouldn't be as large as that one. Getting to the point of stance dancing was quite remote for a lot of tanks who did not have the confidence or even knowledge to try it out. It hurts me as a tank losing the stance dancing but it's for the greater good.

they're trying to move away from Tanks and Healers DPSing.

Nothing could be further from the truth. They are embracing the idea of tanks DPSing with this change. By getting rid of the damage reduction penalty of tank stances and removing enmity combos that certain tanks hardly used, they are pushing all tanks to solely doing their DPS rotations. Not only that, but they indicated that the strength melds that tanks previously attached to their accessories would have this on already and that tank accessories would in general continue to have strength on them.

They didn't have to keep strength on tank accessories at all in 5.0 because it would probably become difficult for a tank to justify using heavensward strength accessories in shadowbringers. They could have got away with nerfing down tank damage if they wanted to but they seem to recognise that the community is DPS-centric and probably also want to make tanks excited about shadowbringers rather than upset.

It remains to be seen if they will simply nerf down the potencies or internal tank calculations that are not visible to us in the game, but I don't think there's any reason for them to do that when they can instead factor higher tank damage into boss fights instead.

My understanding is that white mages are getting a powerful attack from their dark lilies so it does not seem like they are moving away from healer DPS either.

[Halivel]

As main Tank I am happy with our changings and the way how stances were worked out. Because in high-end content people do not even give you use your tanks stance. 99.9% of the time you spend in offensive one, there is no even really any dance dancing because very often you meet your Tankbuster with ultimate shield skill except some cases and that's all. Now it's much more logical: turn on stance for MT, turn off for OT. It doesn't make tanking easier or harder, it makes it look the way how it should look from the whole start tbh.

[XenociderOmega]

I thought I got away from this stupidity when I left World of Warcraft I guess not

[SerLuke]

Me: well I don’t tank in DPS stance because of the 20% damage taken reduction in tank stance because I don’t want to make more work for the healer. I view that as a play style preference not something that makes me a bad player and I’m still focusing on my DPS rotation

Elitists: you are a bad player! DPS above all else!

Dev team: okay we’ll give everyone the best of both worlds, tanks get a 20% damage reduction that doesn’t take away from your DPS

Me: awesome! I don’t have to worry about loosing DPS or making extra work for the healer now

Elitists: this is just helping the bad players!

Can’t win I guess.

[ForteNightshade]

Me: well I don’t tank in DPS stance because of the 20% damage taken reduction in tank stance because I don’t want to make more work for the healer. I view that as a play style preference not something that makes me a bad player and I’m still focusing on my DPS rotation

Elitists: you are a bad player! DPS above all else!

Dev team: okay we’ll give everyone the best of both worlds, tanks get a 20% damage reduction that doesn’t take away from your DPS

Me: awesome! I don’t have to worry about loosing DPS or making extra work for the healer now

Elitists: this is just helping the bad players!

Can’t win I guess.

You're strawmanning.

First and foremost, the reason current Tank Stance is considered bad is the mitigation provided by Grit and Shield doesn't even allow a single extra GCD for healers in a single target scenario. It does, however, sacrifice upwards of 42% of your damage. This, in turn, makes the fight last longer, thus mistakes are more likely to occur. It is a complete hindrance outside of prog, and even then, it should be among the first things you abandon. You cannot argue playstyle when numbers prove the opposing side (stay out of tank stance) is overwhelmingly superior in all aspects sans the one exception I mentioned.

With the coming changes. Very few players are upset with tank stance essentially being made for enmity. In fact, the actual issue doesn't pertain just to tanks. What people are concerned over is the over-simplification of jobs because other players are unwilling to adapt or learn how their chosen job functions.

[SerLuke]

You're strawmanning.

First and foremost, the reason current Tank Stance is considered bad is the mitigation provided by Grit and Shield doesn't even allow a single extra GCD for healers in a single target scenario. It does, however, sacrifice upwards of 42% of your damage. This, in turn, makes the fight last longer, thus mistakes are more likely to occur. It is a complete hindrance outside of prog, and even then, it should be among the first things you abandon. You cannot argue playstyle when numbers prove the opposing side (stay out of tank stance) is overwhelming superior in all aspects sans the one exception I mentioned.

With the coming changes. Very few players are upset with tank stance essentially being made for enmity. In fact, the actual issue doesn't pertain just to tanks. What people are concerned over is the over-simplification of jobs because other players are unwilling to adapt or learn how their chosen job functions.

A shame so many healers have thanked me for doing what I do and telling me how much easier it is for them to heal me and focus on DPS than a lot of other tanks, but go ahead and continue to argue for something that will no longer be apart of the game in what 30 days now?

[SerLuke]

Also the dev team apparently intended for that 20% damage reduction from tank stance to be used... otherwise it would not have become something that’s permanently turned on, so no, I’m not ashamed of my play-style choice especially now that it’s being streamlined.

[Reap00]

I thought I got away from this stupidity when I left World of Warcraft I guess not

These forums do not reflect the mentality of the majority that play this game. These people like to bicker back and forth about nothing. They will all be playing Shadowbringers regardless of what they say.