New Player Experience Sucks! - Impending Expansion Problems

[Melorie]

I ran into that issue with a friend of mine. I do hope SB story skip at the very least come out soon it is a shame since it does enjoy the games combat and classes, but sadly the story is simply not his cup of tea and given the aesthetic he is having a hard time even attempting SB.

I mean the problem is not even the MSQ as a whole, but the fact that if he actually wants to enjoy even the optional content, he has to complete the MSQ no matter what, doesn't matter if he has the level for the other stuff, he cannot even prepare himself gearing up because he can't spend his mendacity. And that guy did not "farm", he only did his leveling with us for fun - just so we can actually have something to do together - and ended up getting to 70 before even starting stormblood.

[Paladinleeds]

I ran into that issue with a friend of mine. I do hope SB story skip at the very least come out soon it is a shame since it does enjoy the games combat and classes, but sadly the story is simply not his cup of tea and given the aesthetic he is having a hard time even attempting SB.



As I mentioned before in a edit, I do understand where you are coming from just for me it confuses me. In the end the tunneling aspect of the MSQ is important to you and part of the reason as to why the connection between the world and story exist? I am an extremely weird person that skips around when it comes to books or series, so the writing in itself is just one aspect of what helps immerse yourself in the story. Please correct me if I am wrong, in the end the reason why maybe some including yourself do not agree with making content level gated instead of MSQ gated is because it breaks the linear path set up by the developers since the game throws exp at players as such an alarming rate that sooner or later one is bound to out level the MSQ, and you as a player already know that content has been unlocked, which ruins the connection between the game world and your character?

Or is it maybe something simpler like back tracking is simply more hassle then it is worth?

Once again I sort of understand to a degree with what you are saying about how you enjoy the story, not trying to question that simply trying to understand what helps foster the connection between the game story and the player.

Right on the money there near enough. It's the disconnect it creates from unlocking it before reaching that point in the quest. The rate at which the MSQ throws XP at you only exacerbates the problem however. But yeah, it is exactly that. The duty is unlocked, with no context behind this (with getting the context later not filling in that disconnect for me sufficiently). It's why I agreed with Physic's idea to allow people to undock the duties from MSQ for those whom would rather not deal with the MSQ. Though how it would also affect things like the tomestone vendors etc, I do not know. That's a challenge we'd have to look into, especially if they decide to go back to the MSQ at a later date.

[Awha]

Right on the money there near enough. It's the disconnect it creates from unlocking it before reaching that point in the quest. The rate at which the MSQ throws XP at you only exacerbates the problem however. But yeah, it is exactly that. The duty is unlocked, with no context behind this (with getting the context later not filling in that disconnect for me sufficiently). It's why I agreed with Physic's idea to allow people to undock the duties from MSQ for those whom would rather not deal with the MSQ. Though how it would also affect things like the tomestone vendors etc, I do not know. That's a challenge we'd have to look into, especially if they decide to go back to the MSQ at a later date.

Appreciate you explaining and clearing that up for me, and I can see how Physic's idea is a far better choice given those reasons.

[Barraind]

An example of a game with a coherent narrative system that doesnt feel like a slog is the original Guild Wars.

While it has its own flaws, its msq progression was "Go to this story dungeon and run it", because EVERY dungeon was a story dungeon. You could do all the side quests to get money and XP and lore, or you could run the dungeons back to back to back (minus the travel time which also had you exploring its worlds) in short order and get to the endgame first and explore later for all the stuff you missed.

I mean the problem is not even the MSQ as a whole, but the fact that if he actually wants to enjoy even the optional content, he has to complete the MSQ no matter what, doesn't matter if he has the level for the other stuff, he cannot even prepare himself gearing up because he can't spend his mendacity. And that guy did not "farm", he only did his leveling with us for fun - just so we can actually have something to do together - and ended up getting to 70 before even starting stormblood.

I have a friend who just beat Shiva hard for the MSQ last night. He's 62 or 63 now. Just wants to get to the point where he can run actual content with us without having to spend 70 canadian fakebux to skip most of it. He hasnt picked up a single side quest. Its been a rather awful experience. He finished his free time and is having to debate if the sub is worth it.


The argument that with new expansions people rush to endgame is a good argument... for removing MSQ from dungeons, trials, raids and the like.

Let people experience the MMO content they want to experience in an MMO (like crafting, gathering, raiding, dungeoning, hard content'ing), and do the lore heavy (or sparse) single player slog experience on their own time.

Yes, people expect things in modern MMO's like multiple at level cap dungeons, multiple raids, and multiple side progression paths, at release, in every new expansion. Having those things is how you justify the box prices of subscription models.

[Crushnight]

Those asking to make msq optional your asking for a big overhaul of a lot of systems to do it such a thing would only come with an expansion and before you debate it isn't a big overhaul here is why it is
-All zones become freely accessible, HW and SB have clear gating with where you can go, ARR is actually the most open about this
- All dungeons/trials get a secondary unlock quest if they were part of the msq, more npcs more dialogue more translations etc etc
- Quest gates removed and replaced with level gates, every single side quest in the game changed and any msq quests with triggers attached changed too
-Aether currents modified to new system, Sea of Clouds having new way to traverse between Ok'Zundu and Camp Cloudtop/ The Fringes having alternate pathway between bridge sides
-Grand Companies/retainers unlock changed
-Tutorials altered to new triggers
-Npcs spawning changed, the tomestones/side quest people
- Expansion unlocks changed, the job quests etc

Its asking for a lot and i think a little unreasonable to be asking for msq to be optional at this stage, i think it is just too far gone now best thing can do is ask for pruning of unnecessary msq which thankfully Yoshi and the devs have taken into consideration

[Lynesse]

You really are not though, no one is forcing you to play this. Seriously go find and enjoy a game you like more, just because you don’t like this game doesn’t make you a captive audience.

This is a fallacy. There's a lot to love in this game. But I -- rightfully -- don't love the forced, irrelevant, solo fedexing that doesn't teach me anything. It's a story-driven MMO. The story and the MMO parts are very good. The padding is not.

I'm finished with the story and am very pleased with the game. Don't admonish me for showing empathy for people. You have no idea what I do and don't love.

[SerLuke]

This is a fallacy. There's a lot to love in this game. But I -- rightfully -- don't love the forced, irrelevant, solo fedexing that doesn't teach me anything. It's a story-driven MMO. The story and the MMO parts are very good. The padding is not.

I'm finished with the story and am very pleased with the game. Don't admonish me for showing empathy for people. You have no idea what I do and don't love.

Thank you for clarifying what you meant but saying you are a captive audience though isn’t empathy it’s hyperbole, also Yoshi P already said they are going to evaluate how they can streamline the ARR MSQ after 5.0 launches so expect some changes during the 5.x patch cycle.

[Lynesse]

Thank you for clarifying what you meant but saying you are a captive audience though isn’t empathy it’s hyperbole, also Yoshi P already said they are going to evaluate how they can streamline the ARR MSQ after 5.0 launches so expect some changes during the 5.x patch cycle.

Telling people they should move on to another game because they don't like the padding is hyperbole. The hyperbole is the implication that the fedexing represents the game as a whole. It does not.

[SerLuke]

Telling people they should move on to another game because they don't like the padding is hyperbole. The hyperbole is the implication that the fedexing represents the game as a whole. It does not.

I never said that in response to the padding, concern, I said they should move onto a different game if they don’t think unlocking most dungeons, trials, areas in the game should be connected to the MSQ, I was saying that to people who were saying the MSQ as a whole should be made optional.

It looks like we got off on the wrong foot and I misunderstood what you said initially and I apologize.

[Lynesse]

I never said that in response to the padding, concern, I said they should move onto a different game if they don’t think unlocking most dungeons, trials, areas in the game should be connected to the MSQ, I was saying that to people who were saying the MSQ as a whole should be made optional.

It looks like we got off on the wrong foot and I misunderstood what you said initially and I apologize.

Apology accepted.