A Fond Farewell to FF XIV

[DumdogsWorld]

I have nothing to say because posts like this are dime a dozen and stuff but you two made me really have one of these moments

How did you manage to be palette swaps posting one after another.

....my posts are a dime a dozen?

Edit: For the record, I have a beard.

[DrWho2010]

1. a lot less people do Ultimate than Eureka. Having "fun" is subjective.

I dunno if you've seen Mr. Happy's interview with Yoshi-p, but they were only going to give us Hrothgar until Viera became waaaaaaaaaay too vocal. The female Viera was easy - everything from conception to finished product was basically done already. But male had to be done from scratch. They still wanted to do Hrothgar tho. so a compromise was made. Perhaps sometime 7.0 ish we'll get the other gender.

If the devs had time to do all the suggestions you posted - i'm sure they would. but one of the main highlights of this game is a predictable, updated schedule of patches. i'm not sure a whole lot of people would accept a 6 to 9 month patch cycle.


2. Eureka is an experiment. It's a beta for what's going to be planned for 5.0. Actually no, i take that back, i'd say it's rather an alpha.

3. show me any mmo without a cash shop. we pay for a sub yes, but we get a better experience than a F2P mmo. plus the sub is hella cheap. i'd argue if there wasn't a cash shop, the game wouldn't be here anymore, or else subs would be at least double or triple the cost it is now.

4. skill is relative. also the game is fighting for other uses of people's time, other games, entertainment, etc. If you make this your only game and form of entertainment, you're doing yourself a disservice. If you're just *that good* at the game well, then congrats you've won yourself time away from it because hooray you've done everything. well done.

5. Believe it or not there used to be a boy's day in Japan, but in the late 1940's it was repurposed into Children's Day, and is now part of the Golden Week. the traditions involved with Girl's Day culturally have more importance than Children's Day which is why it's given greater importance. don't be expecting gender neutrality anytime soon when it comes to Japan. I can't speak for fashion esthetic, because i could care less about outfits in this game, but the art designers for the game really do love to celebrate the differences fashion makes for men vs. women. Japan is a very non-unisex country still too.

6. i don't main healers i just play them for funzies so i don't have a valid opinion on balancing. the devs have a tough job for this. whatever they do for 5.0 someone's gonna be upset that's for sure.

7. see back to number 1.


have fun with your time off. I hope you can mellow out a bit before coming back. I'm also not trying to be antagonistic saying that either.

[Jamein]

I've been on and off with FFXIV since ARR. Some of your points are the reason why.

1. The team might have an issue with resource prioritization, and it's hurting the game. Prime example: a ton of effort went into Eureka, but only a tiny fraction of the playerbase engaged in it. We lost content everyone did to create something few benefitted from. Ultimate fights re-use assets and music; they are comparatively cheap to make and add value appropriate for the cost. But Eureka took away a lot and gave little back, despite all the prizes SE put in it to tempt players. And now they are going to do Eureka again in 5.0... I lost the relic grind and some dungeons to this, and got nothing in return. There's also the issue with Viera and Hrothgar being major selling points for ShB but not being able to wear most head gear when the expac lands. YoshiP admitting that they were rushed into prod does not inspire confidence.

Also, SE is unable or unwilling to make the tough decisions to keep the game fresh. Whether it's due to lack of resources or lack of willpower or both, the dev team keeps putting bandaids on stuff that really need some comprehensive care. Not having enough housing, refusing to acknowledge how the game actually works by developing jobs in a vacuum, not going back to tighten up the ARR leveling quests and the 8 man dungeons, and so on. Games need TLC on their old bits to keep it fresh for new players. For every person who buys a skip potion, there is another who tries the game and quits by 35 because of how tedious the game is until HW. There are people who have played for years and have the money but haven't had the luck to get a house. Jobs that get shafted during the Expansion Shuffle have to languish for two years unless they are WAR and AST. I feel for the team that they can't fully control where the game's earnings go but someone really needs to make the case that treading water is not good for the long run. If 6.0 turned out to be almost nothing but QOL improvements + bun bros and a new heal job, I would be legit excited and willing to come back and try it out.

Resource allocation is a huge deal/problem. Everytime I see things like Diadem/Gold Saucer I cringe because yeah it would be nice but these things are just minor side things to do and they are not fixing the main core of the game. The formula has stayed the same since ARR everything in this game just feels like a re-skin to me now nothing is 'new'.
Even Eureka was a complete joke, are we really to believe this took months of development? Its a god damn fate system combined with the S rank hunt system this wasn't some innovative thing they just added a level grind and slapped old systems together and it was still poor.

SE really have no clue how to create a real 'grind' like Eureka was meant to be. In most grind games you get the power feel to make the grind feel less....grindy. You don't spend 5 minutes killing one mob, you kill about 800 in a minute. Yes the exp is lower and overall the exp/minute can be the same but the difference is you don't feel like weak having killed omega then trying to kill a little bunny in 40 hits.

2. I don't think the XIV team knows why people find their game fun. I appreciate that they found a formula that works and want to stick to it- makes a hellacious dev cycle that much easier after all- but the new things they try really seem to suffer in the execution stage. Sounds great on paper, sucks in reality type of thing. Not to harp on Eureka but it's another perfect example: map events driven by player interaction, dangerous mobs, risks to being careless in the overworld, and a design that encourages teamwork accompanied by /shout banter. All things players have asked for in the game, here in one instance! But they implemented those requirements by taking the worst parts of XI and shoving it into XIV without much time in UAT. (If you believe that Anemos and Pagos were extensively tested before release, I have a bridge to sell you...). The result was an old school grindfest reminiscent of early 2000's game design with none of the benefits that made the slog worthwhile. Both iterations of Diadem were preferable to this and Diadem didn't steal the relic grind.

This mentality also applies to job design- WHM will be a pure power healer, SCH will be a tactical/efficient healer, and AST will be a flexible healer with buffs. Sounds good theory. But holy cow did it not work out as expected because of how combat actually works in this game. I weep for the future of WHM. And MCH. And DRK.

I covered most of this above, formula same after years nothing changed entire game is one big re-skin which we essentially just do the same experts every week to cap tomes. Only fun part is raid which I will come on to later.

Eureka bad system.

3. Cash shop in a sub MMO with many exclusives. I have strong opinions on this, but as the years go by and things get added without much benefit being seen, I don't feel like I can tolerate it any more. The days when you could buy a game and expect to have it all until the expansion are gone unfortunately, but that does not mean companies have a carte blanche to stuff as much as they can in those stores. The expectation with SE's cash shop was that every cent goes back to XIV alone. Fair enough. But with us getting more of the same and less than desired each year, I don't think it's existence is justified.

not a huge fan of cash shops in a sub MMO but its all cosmetic so don't care for me.

4. There's not enough midcore content and most available content is too easy. You have loads of easy dungeons and 8-man raids/trials, the amount of which piles up as patches increase and ilvls inflate and level caps are raised. You have some hard stuff that stays kind of hard (sometimes in counterintuitive ways like Ramuh/Levi/Ifrit EX before the adjustments) in Coil/Savage, some EX trials, and now UwU. There's special randomized encounters like PotD/HoH that can be done solo for extra spice. But group content that asks players to pay attention without instawiping for one mistake is rare. The best difficulty in the game (IMO) comes from the 24 man raids- the chance for recovery is there, but you better be on your toes. I think the dev team is trying to bridge this gap by making the first two Savage tiers easier and the latter two casual 8 man instances harder but there's still not enough. And we shouldn't have to give up what little truly difficult content the game offers to make up for a lack elsewhere.

Overall I think the game is too tilted towards "easy". It was reassuring when I first started out, but I quickly caught up and became bored of dungeons and story trials before they were released. More Shinryu and Tsukuyomi trials, more The Burn and Ghimlyt Dark dungeons please.

I liked Steps of Faith before it was nerfed too. People needed to git gud at tower defence games is all.

I've harped on at this for years now. The game has a weird difficulty curve and its why we see so many bad players in my opinion. Forget parsers and everything else.

End game is:
Can be completed by licking your keyboard
4 man Dungeons
24 man Alliance Raids
8 man Normal modes
Normal Primals

Requires some brain power and PF
First two Turns of current savage
Ex Primals


Requires a static
Last two turns of current savage
Ultimates

Now I know the last tier is debatable as you can pretty much get 3 done in PF WITH a good group and 4 at a push and its not ONLY statics, but for the most part it is.

The point is, There is hardly ANY mid-tier content. You go from absolute brain dead faceroll into Savages and people wonder why they get those people in PF who literally have no clue what they are doing or who struggle with even doing a rotation. The game offers nothing to bridge these players into those harder fights.

Yoshi said they create savage first then tone it down for normal, why not stop mid way and just create a mid-tier version of the raid that is still doable in PF/DF but will require people to do more than wipe their nose across 1-9 and hit whatever skills come out.

This is my biggest gripe in the game with the content. Its brain dead for 90% of it then it needs a static.

Wow does Raid Finder/Heroic/Mythic tiers, and they have mythic+ dungeons which scale in difficulty as you complete it. A great system tbh.

5. This is deeply personal and controversial, but SE drives me bonkers with the gender inequalities in the game. As someone who plays a male character I got really annoyed when females got more glam options, more apparent effort put into their outfits, and a whole freaking seasonal event dedicated to them with nothing for guys. Now I'm saying this knowing that XIV is actually better about this than many other games are. I initially came to the game because there was a distinct lack of waifu worship and both genders got the same stuff more or less. But the glamour system was introduced, years passed, and the discrepancy grew. Again they are trying to rectify this but the locking nonsense is frustrating. I'd like to see actual equality like the flouncy sets that came out- girls got a cute little dress, guys got... an attempt (nice shirt at least). The spirit was there and that's what I wanted to see. But SE doesn't really get it. They want to cater to the waifu loving crowd at the expense of people like me until we get a little too vocal, and let me tell you, I am sick to death of waifus.

Also, unpopular opinion: I would not care in the least if they got rid of Little Ladies' Day and replaced it with a gender-neutral option. Yes I am still mildly annoyed at the 2014 event that gave girls the Princess for a Day title and guys had to settle for that minion. And yes, I am so freaking tired of idol mania (girls and guys alike).

Not something I care for to be honest, the game is far more 'progressive' than most others I don't personally see any problems with it nor does it take away from my own enjoyment so each to their own.

6. I'm a healer main. It's been discussed to death already so I will say this: you had all of SB to balance healers. I'm extra salty as a WHM main that got freaking LILIES as my gift for SB (Thin Air was cool though, please don't share that with SCH/AST like you did with our other unique buffs).

I'm aware that balancing the healers the right way will probably involve adjusting how the game works at a fundamental level so that more types of healing can be added, but it still stings. Not having a new job to try out in my preferred role twice in a row means I am not really thrilled for the new expac. My interest in what they'll reveal in May is also muted due to SE probably screwing the pooch in favor of making meaningful changes to create room for a future heal job. Band aids 4 lyfe,

You covered why they didn't add a new healer. The point is adding one it would just be another whitemage with X system. They have no idea how to create a new healer that actually feels different due to mechanics and the way the game is set out.

7. Male Viera and Female Hrothgar not being present. It's very disappointing to see SE go back to making boneheaded decisions that will haunt them forever, but here we are I guess. Been discussed to death already but it is a factor in me not buying. I had names ready for a bun boy alt depending on the race's build and now... nothing.

P.S.- if you're getting mad at other people getting mad ("I hope they never make [thing] just to spite the people who complain", "Devs can't do anything without people complaining", "I'm sick of seeing [topic] everywhere"), you're in too deep. Take a break from the community for a bit and do something else that takes your mind away from it. Did wonders for me, might help some other folks too.

Don't care about gender locking, personally I feel people are taking it too far like its a personal attack on them when in reality its a game and they made two races. Deal with it. They can add male veira or not won't bother me.

Not trying to say some of your points aren't valid by the way everyone feels differently about certain aspects of the game. Was just saying they don't matter to me so wasn't gonna comment much on them.

[Ceridwenae]

*snips!*

Take care, OP.

Saying something to pour fuel on the fire would not be productive. So instead, I'll salute you with this image I got off Google:

This is from a fantastic HBO show. If you get a chance, I recommend everyone watch it if you've not already ("Band of Brothers").

For what it’s worth, Little Ladies’ Day is based on a Japanese holiday that is focused on girls, without (from my understanding) an exact counterpart for boys. So that part, at least, isn’t deliberate favouritism - though they could certainly invent an equivalent if they don’t have one. More uniquely Eorzean holidays would be nice.

This alone is the reason I've not gone one a huge rant on the forums about LLD. I have, however, had a discussion with my daughter about it instead. Frankly, I agree with you about inventing an equivalent: they could just mirror the event but make it available to everyone, and have it based on having respect for each other. Yes, it should be there every day of the year, but here's one day where we really show what it means to be excellent to each other (*air guitar riff*).

[Paladinleeds]

I've harped on at this for years now. The game has a weird difficulty curve and its why we see so many bad players in my opinion. Forget parsers and everything else.

End game is:
Can be completed by licking your keyboard
4 man Dungeons
24 man Alliance Raids
8 man Normal modes

Requires some brain power and PF
First two Turns of current savage


Requires a static
Last two turns of current savage
Ultimates

Now I know the last tier is debatable as you can pretty much get 3 done in PF WITH a good group and 4 at a push and its not ONLY statics, but for the most part it is.

The point is, There is hardly ANY mid-tier content. You go from absolute brain dead faceroll into Savages and people wonder why they get those people in PF who literally have no clue what they are doing or who struggle with even doing a rotation. The game offers nothing to bridge these players into those harder fights.

Yoshi said they create savage first then tone it down for normal, why not stop mid way and just create a mid-tier version of the raid that is still doable in PF/DF but will require people to do more than wipe their nose across 1-9 and hit whatever skills come out.

This is my biggest gripe in the game with the content. Its brain dead for 90% of it then it needs a static.

Wow does Raid Finder/Heroic/Mythic tiers, and they have mythic+ dungeons which scale in difficulty as you complete it. A great system tbh.

This is exactly something that bothers me as well. Ex primals tends to chop and change between braindead and requires some brainpower. Although generally it's more in favour of "Requires some brain power". However, I would love it if normal mode raids and potentially 24 mans were made to require some brainpower to finish. This way, the first 2 Savage turns can be brought up to speed with the last 2 turns in terms of difficulty. SE have shown they'll be willing to add unique stuff for the hardcore player base (see unique extra phases in Savage Turn 4, Ultimate), so why not make the normal mode raids a bit harder to bring them up to current Savage Turn 1 difficulty (or perhaps slightly easier)? I think it would also help to ease the difficulty curve going into Savage.

[TaleraRistain]

I agree with you on a fair few points. #1 is very concerning. We are seeing less and less resources allocated to this game. There's always been an element of cut and paste, but it's gotten exponentially worse over time. Either they're losing people or they're removing people from this team to work on other teams. And that doesn't bode well for their ability to provide meaningful and unique content for us in the future.

One #4 I disagree with needing more instawipes, mainly because what's really challenging about an instawipe? That means no one can lag, no one can derp, no one can have spouse or kid aggro, etc. Instawipes are a lazy way to make something difficult but they aren't really adding challenge. Unique and engaging mechanics that are still punishing but give a chance of recovery are a much better way to incorporate challenge without going the lazy route.

As a fellow WHM main, right there with you on #6. I'm still salty we gave up the most to Role skills, including a freaking Job quest reward that was never replaced. And removing skills we actually used, like Stoneskin, that could have helped us maintain our identity. Plus the lilies didn't even work with the skills we used the most when they first came out. They don't understand our Job at all and they keep stepping on our toes badly by giving our skills away to other healer classes or RDM.

I'm not leaving yet. But I do think Shadowbringers will be a deciding expansion for me. I was greatly disappointed in not getting my relic. I played that game back in 1999 for a good decade almost. I don't need a repeat. I only went into Eureka because a friend was going but Pagos was my limit. I noped out of there needing light for 13 crystals still and never went back. If that's the content they're going to give us in the future, I'll just go back to EverQuest, where they actually did the camp and grind the right way. And ironically is much more non-raider friendly these days.

[DumdogsWorld]

This is from a fantastic HBO show. If you get a chance, I recommend everyone watch it if you've not already ("Band of Brothers").

Oh! I saw that in high school! My teacher got in trouble for showing us "something violent." I don't remember it too well, though....might try re-watching it.

[AnnaRosa]

I won't make this long and drawn out, but I hoped to give a little feedback before I packed it in for good. I genuinely enjoyed much of my time playing this game and I hope it continues to be successful for a while longer. However, after taking an extended break and coming back to wrap up the 4.x series, I've come to see that XIV is no longer for me. Some of it is burn out. Most of it is me not being satisfied with what's being delivered.

I hope to hear great things about the game in the years to come and who knows... if it's still around and going strong for 6.0, I might check back in. But for now I plan to put the game down and leave it all behind- house and everything. I had a great time in Eorzea but it's time for me to move on to other games. I don't think another MMO can compete with XIV in terms of quality but SB and what we know of ShB is a disappointment I can't justify supporting any more. So long, thanks for the fun, and stay classy XIV community. Coming to this game from LoL was a huge change for the better and I will miss the positivity here.

I put the long details in spoilers so as not to print a novel on people's screens.

Good bye and good luck! Axé!

[Kazrah]

For what it’s worth, Little Ladies’ Day is based on a Japanese holiday that is focused on girls, without (from my understanding) an exact counterpart for boys.

Actually, it's a direct counterpart to how Valentine's Day is celebrated in Japan. On Valentine's Day, a girl gives something like chocolate to a guy she likes, and on White Day (the RL version of Little Ladies' Day in-game) is when that guy has to give that girl a bigger gift in return.

As for the OP's statement, while I do agree on enough of the points and despite the flaws of this game, I've always come back because I know other games I play have it even worse. Don't let the door hit you in the face on the way back in.

[RareItems]

FFXIV's has always delivered Consistent quality content for the amount of subscription fee it's asking since release. It's something other Top MMO's like BDO fails to bring every week despite being 500% more expensive to play than FFXIV. I think you should take a break and come back to FFXIV 2 weeks before Shadowbrings launch .