Why Does A Fierce Race Of Female Warriors...

[Iscah]

...Why are we applying real world logic towards a fictional race and culture? People are getting offended and trying to defend a fictional race of people that can't even be offended over what they're wearing. You can't say the style of clothing is out of place because it's not even a "normal" jungle. For all we know, it could be considered normal fare within the lore.

There's no use in trying to rationalize something that we don't need to.

I was replying to someone who was trying to apply real world logic to it.

"They're wearing it because they live in a hot and stifling jungle" is not a good explanation for that outfit, regardless of whether it needs justifying or not.

[Sigma-Astra]

I was replying to someone who was trying to apply real world logic to it.

"They're wearing it because they live in a hot and stifling jungle" is not a good explanation for that outfit, regardless of whether it needs justifying or not.

It's not, but they're going under the assumptions that most jungle climates are hot and humid which is usually the norm in most JRPG's. Honestly, there's not much info about the Gelmore Jungle in general period. I'm not even sure if it was mentioned within XIV or XII if it was "hot" or "stifling" in regards towards the climate.

[Jaywalker]

No need to apologize for jumping in when you have something to say, this is an open discussion after all.

I get where you're coming from about the agency of the characters, but the neither the Viera nor any female character in this game is shown to lack agency. You might say Nanamo, but her's is a situation of story context. She lacks power because of Ul'dah's economics not because anyone is holding her down. The Viera are shown to be a strong hunter/warrior race and not victims of oppression and discrimination. Maybe they embrace their sexuality like Bayonetta, or maybe they don't even consider the concept of sexuality the same as we do. The only one's who do know are the devs and part of me believes they don't think that far into things.

I also take issue with how "fanservice" has been boiled down to simply the inclusion of T&A when it is so much more than that.

Other than that, thanks for the motivation and support!

Thanks! And no prob on motivation/support, go kick butt!

I actually figure Nanamo's fine tbh lol. Her situation's limiting, but I think it matters that how she deals with her situation is a choice and understood as such. If she despaired and decided to live day-by-day in excess while ignoring her people, that would make her tragic. Maybe even a tragic villain, depending. She could also have been tragic if she was so ignorant and helpless she remained a passive and childlike puppet incapable of surviving independently, particularly if it was shown in-story that she could not manage outside a gilded cage. As is, she fights her situation and develops herself into a capable ruler in her own right. None of the three possibilities demonstrate lack of agency/choice on a technical, storytelling level. It's just that some would be shown as personally weak and some are personally strong. People are like that. Figure everyone regardless of gender has the capacity to be personally strong or weak, but that doesn't make any ineffective as characters.

One way to think of it is you could have a three different characters trapped in featureless rooms by themselves and unable to escape, but what they choose to do with themselves even while being stuck like that is still a choice that says something about them. When I talk about agency, I just mean that there's a reason that can be understood in human terms. Genre conventions, humor, and parody are fine reasons too but there are still ways those reasons can work or fall flat.

When it comes to the Viera, I file them mainly under genre conventions because FFXIV (and FF games as a whole) tend to run on rule of aesthetic/"it just looks good". Doesn't necessarily make sense and is generally applied pretty evenly across the board. If it was a more realistic game where you got more detailed characterization from what characters choose to put on their bodies in different places/situations, that might be subject to some criticism. Under the circumstances doesn't seem like a problem to me. The genre conventions here are consistent in how they suspend disbelief so don't necessarily need to bring up stuff about how warriors in hot climates wear less, even if that is true. FFXIV warriors wear bathingsuits in Coerthas.

Lol I am with you on there being more to fanservice than T&A, the cases I was referring to just happened to involve that kind of fanservice. Also, I think it's worth noting there's a difference between say, artistic nudes (even with conventionally sexy bodies) and fanservice imo. Posture, presentation, atmosphere, context, all that ties in. T&A is just the best shorthand I've got for "this character is pulling contortionist moves to show both off at the same time" lol.

[kamenkuro]

You're the only person I've heard of vocally say that it's a joke. Again, it's fine if you're not comfortable with wearing it, it doesn't mean that you get to make fun or treat other people any lesser because they're comfortable wearing it and you're not.

You're really projecting here. I said I put it on my character. It's just a silly outfit. What about it isn't a joke? It's a parody of outfits made famous by casinos and porn mags. The entirety of the Goldsaucer is a joke. What are you going on about? I am seriously confused. Treat people lesser? I laughed with my friend when he put it on.

[Sigma-Astra]

You're really projecting here. I said I put it on my character. It's just a silly outfit. What about it isn't a joke? It's a parody of outfits made famous by casinos and porn mags. The entirety of the Goldsaucer is a joke. What are you going on about? I am seriously confused. Treat people lesser? I laughed with my friend when he put it on.

I'm not projecting. And you just "tried it on", you never bought the costume. That's hardly the same thing as buying said outfit, wearing it openly, and actually supporting the idea. I remember your first comments when the whole male bunny suit thing was a huge talk topic and your less than savory opinions on it. Your thinly veiled dislike for men wearing bunny suits isn't as well hidden as you'd like to think, nor is your perspective that every guy who wears them deserves to be treated like a joke.

We all collectively know why the male bunny outfit was implemented, we all collectively know the types of people that wanted it implemented.

Sorry if I can read between the lines because you're that obvious.

[xxvaynxx]

...Why are we applying real world logic towards a fictional race and culture? People are getting offended and trying to defend a fictional race of people that can't even be offended over what they're wearing. You can't say the style of clothing is out of place because it's not even a "normal" jungle. For all we know, it could be considered normal fare within the lore.

There's no use in trying to rationalize something that we don't need to.

Pretty much this.
If you look at the Veena Lore. They're literally in the snow mountains wearing a leotard They're not real people so trying to use real world logic is moot.

They're bunny people, we use magic, fight dragons, fight space robots, ride flying tigers and fat cats.
Logic is out the window imo.

[SoulEchelon]

Didn't read this whole thread so I'm mainly speaking directly to the OP and I guess anyone else who's suddenly taking umbrage with Viera's base gear.

If you don't like it, then don't wear it. I'm sure there will be many, many other outfits that are far less "revealing". Did you complain about Miqo'te's base outfit too? Or how about Elezen's? Those are in no way "fierce" nor warrior like either. Miqo'te's is an upskirter's dream and Elezen's is some weird tight-fitting ensemble no adventurer would be wearing. At the very least, Viera's is armor. Exposing armor, but armor nonetheless.

Speaking of exposing armor, there's a pretty damn good explanation as to why, even in a real world setting, not being armored to the gills for combat can in certain situations be a very good thing. Here's a video all about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Iw_RD_h6bc

TL;DW - Lots of armor can be clunky, cumbersome, restrict a certain degree of movement, and above all else - be very, very tiring. Someone who wears a ton of armor will not have as much stamina as someone who isn't. Obviously, both types of attire have their strengths and weaknesses, but the validity of "Barbarian-esque" armor is pretty strong even in a realistic setting.

Now let's think about the Viera themselves. Where do they live, and what do they tend to fight against? They live in the Golmore Jungle - untamed land filled with thick trees, low hanging vines, heavy bushes, and general dangerous animals and terrain. It stands to reason that they would fight and hunt using guerrilla tactics in such a setting. Sneaking up on enemies and battling them at close range, or raining arrows from strategic spots from afar. Heavy armor would not work for such tactics and terrain; realistically or otherwise. It's also probably pretty hot there being a dense jungle forest, thus having less or lighter armor than the typical would benefit them.

But that begs the question. Why are people trying to inject realism into this? I didn't even need to explain why their outfits (with admittedly a few tweaks) would be fine realistically because this is a fantasy world filled to the brim with magic. They don't need to wear a bunch of armor to protect themselves. As a wise gnome in a meme pic once said: "It's Magic. I ain't gotta explain shi-".

So as stated way at the start of this - if you don't like how exposed their base gear is, then..........don't wear it. Equip something else. There will be many, many options for you to choose from. This is a non-issue.

[Beki_Bayaqad]

I was replying to someone who was trying to apply real world logic to it.

"They're wearing it because they live in a hot and stifling jungle" is not a good explanation for that outfit, regardless of whether it needs justifying or not.

They don't live in Jungles, they live in massive magically rich temperate forests. And the Veena even live in near polar forests living at the base of mountains and all

[Kacho_Nacho]

Here's the problem with your "women don't have to wear anything they don't want to" and about the "sexism" argument in general: Viera aren't real women. If the developers are treating real women with disdain and forcing them to wear skimpy clothing then yes, they'd be sexists, but these are fictional creations, they have no agency except what the developers give them. To say that their portrayal means the developers are sexist is assuming a lot about individuals you no next to nothing about and throwing around words like that about them can do serious harm to those individual's reputations. People on these threads and social media in general need to think beyond their personal views of a situation before they start trying to label certain people a certain way otherwise someone is going to end up losing their job, or worse.

I've been avoiding directly addressing you for the entirety of this thread because even though I don't agree with your stance, I felt like you meant no harm in your statement. But now you're calling people sexist because of your own displeasure and that is harmful.

Hi Jovan. I think you misunderstood what I was saying with my comment. I meant, female players should be allowed to dress their character however they want.

I'm a sensitive new age guy, you know.

Same forum where people get hyper defensive and demand bunny suits for dudes produces people offended by attractive women. Why do they listen to this place?

Because different people are different?

You think I'm offended by beautiful women? Hahahahahaha! I think you aimed for a polar bear and hit a penguin there.

Didn't read this whole thread so I'm mainly speaking directly to the OP and I guess anyone else who's suddenly taking umbrage with Viera's base gear.

If you don't like it, then don't wear it.

You should have read the thread. Your answers have already been brought but thanks for the link! I love stuff like this.

I wasn't planning on wearing the outfit. People aren't ready for the tidal wave of lalafell lust which would ensue.

[Sigma-Astra]

Hi Jovan. I think you misunderstood what I was saying with my comment. I meant, female players should be allowed to dress their character however they want.

I'm a sensitive new age guy, you know.

I hope that you don't take any offense with this, but uh.....female players don't need you to be offended or speak for them. I'm pretty sure we can speak for ourselves about this.