Baldesion Arsenal and new ToS Combo

[tdb]

Which is why discord should never be the main means of doing anything designed to be public.

Then again something intended to be public should be designed so it doesn't require significant organization beforehand. I haven't been anywhere close to BA myself, but from what I've heard it requires six tanks and six healers to have a hope of succeeding and it's impossible to change classes once inside. Alliance raids are already difficult enough with random, unorganized people and in those the duty finder enforces correct group composition.

[HyoMinPark]

thought they said he was kicked for "sniping" not being disrespectful to other players.

One of the rules of the Discord is that you will not snipe portals from other arsenal groups because it's disrespectful to try and undermine the effort that arsenal group put into getting into the instance for the content. If he wanted to do BA, there are groups in there that run all day, every day, at multiple times. He had plenty of chances to get into a different one; instead, it seems that he chose to just take a portal from someone within another group.

It's considered disrespectful within that Discord to snipe from other arsenal groups - hence why they kicked him. Especially if he did it multiple times.

which brings up the problem of an outside community/app being the main means of doing in game content. It essentially forces people to follow their rules in order to take part in game content

When you join the Discord to participate in the runs it offers, you agree to follow the rules in the Discord. You break them, and you're kicked from the Discord for it if there are multiple offenses involved. Those within the Discord are held to the rules they agreed to when they joined, and punished if they break them; and this is a problem, how?

The rules are present within the Discord for a reason. They exist to try and keep the community within the server in line; and they're quite necessary in a server with thousands of players in it. With no rules, there would surely be chaos.

[Physic]

One of the rules of the Discord is that you will not snipe portals from other arsenal groups because it's disrespectful to try and undermine the effort that arsenal group put into getting into the instance for the content. If he wanted to do BA, there are groups in there that run all day, every day, at multiple times. He had plenty of chances to get into a different one; instead, it seems that he chose to just take a portal from someone within another group.

It's considered disrespectful within that Discord to snipe from other arsenal groups - hence why they kicked him. Especially if he did it multiple times.



When you join the Discord to participate in the runs it offers, you agree to follow the rules in the Discord. You break them, and you're kicked from the Discord for it if there are multiple offenses involved. Those within the Discord are held to the rules they agreed to when they joined, and punished if they break them; and this is a problem, how?

The rules are present within the Discord for a reason. They exist to try and keep the community within the server in line; and they're quite necessary in a server with thousands of players in it. With no rules, there would surely be chaos.

like i said, discord rules are up to discord players to decide. But that basically means that behavior which is fine, and even promoted in game, can lead to exclusion from discord. Which is one of the reasons discord should not be considered the main way to public content.


Which is perfectly fine, thats why they made the portals open and made aether stabilizers a thing. So that any player who wishes to honestly take part in the content can, regardless of outside groups extra game rules or desires to exclude them.


After all this talk, i have come to the conclusion, its fine that discord users organize and set up the way they set up, and its fine that people who dont want to organize that way ignore those rules, and follow game rules. If the majority of the server prefers to abide discords way, thats up to them. If a bunch of people ignore it, its up to them.


If SE doesnt like the way that pans out, its up to them to change the rules one way or the other.

[Eli85]

It's funny, almost all of NA/EU's BA problems stem from the fact that NA/EU players insist on doing BA in a way that S-E never intended. There is a reason the JP server groups do not have this chaos, and it's not because they're inherently superior players or anything.

Really, if NA/EU server groups want to avoid all of these BA problems, they need to 1) drop their entitlement (nope, no matter what you do, you don't own portals) and 2) do the content as it was intended (no discord, no premades).

[WaterShield]

It's funny, almost all of NA/EU's BA problems stem from the fact that NA/EU players insist on doing BA in a way that S-E never intended. There is a reason the JP server groups do not have this chaos, and it's not because they're inherently superior players or anything.

Really, if NA/EU server groups want to avoid all of these BA problems, they need to 1) drop their entitlement (nope, no matter what you do, you don't own portals) and 2) do the content as it was intended (no discord, no premades).

Or they can do like me and choose to not do the content at all. This is incredibly terrible game design that has lead to this situation. Who's ready for Eureka 2.0 come SHB? Or should I call it Diadem 4.0?

[Rhus]

Can't they work together? Get a premade of 48 then leave 8 spots to be filled by people in the instance that will want to run it with a full group. I'm sure there is enough on the discord to have some members "on hold" should they fail to fill all 8 slots. Those 8 can then be the support or can run from start if one of the premades wants to support. That way you get your premade groups and you leave space for people in the instance who want to run it and you avoid friction and drama. Too much sense?

[WaterShield]

Can't they work together? Get a premade of 48 then leave 8 spots to be filled by people in the instance that will want to run it with a full group. I'm sure there is enough on the discord to have some members "on hold" should they fail to fill all 8 slots. Those 8 can then be the support or can run from start if one of the premades wants to support. That way you get your premade groups and you leave space for people in the instance who want to run it and you avoid friction and drama. Too much sense?

Why should people who pre organized be expected to sacrifice spots? Why should people who just show up respect the premade?

The instance is set up in a way that leads to conflict. People are expected to work together, yet also compete for a limited resource. This is SE's fault.

[Rhus]

I disagree the discorda are set up to lead to conflict. The instance is set up to be run perfectly fine. You do ovni, you get primed, you enter BA via a portal. You don't want to risk missing out you use a stabiliser for access. You beat BA you get mount. Simple. Or so it would seem on paper anyway. We seem to have made it worse ourselves, no se

[WaterShield]

I disagree the discorda are set up to lead to conflict. The instance is set up to be run perfectly fine. You do ovni, you get primed, you enter BA via a portal. You don't want to risk missing out you use a stabiliser for access. You beat BA you get mount. Simple. Or so it would seem on paper anyway. We seem to have made it worse ourselves, no se

Let me reiterate. You pull together 100 or so people to open BA. Around half are able to get in. Do you stay to finish the fate or run off ahead to try and grab the portal? If you fail to get into BA what is your incentive to stay for the support fate?

They have set up an environment that is exclusionary by design. The design incentivizes people to behave in ways that Square says they don't want them to behave in. So which should I listen to? Their PR department or the reality of the environment they have created?

If I want to do content with a premade... why can't we just queue in as a premade? Also, why did the content need to be gated behind a hellish grind?

[Alucard135]

do the content as it was intended (no discord, no premades).

Everyone against premades say that, yet they don't do it. I wonder why?