We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[TaiyoShikasu]

The game is built on the graveyard of essentially a whole different game. It'd basically be like moving The House on Haunted Hill to a hill that isn't haunted.

How or why they won't expand character creator or even update existing models is something else. Modders who are literally just nerds with spare time can polish up the models real nice, but a team of what was it like 300 or something stated in some Q&A working for a billion dollar company can't?

[linay]

people already rarely full clear, but what you say should be considered

They do in Stormblood.

[RyoXander]

I will agree with you. I'm not going to bother to read the 100+ pages BUT I can say that from an MMO addict's perspective, this game is nowhere near as fun or enthralling as it used to be. I played FFXI for 9 years and then played this game for the first 2 years (of Reborn) before my account was hacked and I effectively gave up. Even though I still loved the game back then I couldn't bring myself to starting over.

Cut to October of last year and I started a new account and had a blast going through all the old content. However after reaching end game after about 2 months, I found myself bored out of my mind. I actually just resubbed after not playing for a while and regretted it lol. I know these are just my experiences but I'm sure many people share my thoughts.

[Rivers23]

I will agree with you. I'm not going to bother to read the 100+ pages BUT I can say that from an MMO addict's perspective, this game is nowhere near as fun or enthralling as it used to be. I played FFXI for 9 years and then played this game for the first 2 years (of Reborn) before my account was hacked and I effectively gave up. Even though I still loved the game back then I couldn't bring myself to starting over.

Cut to October of last year and I started a new account and had a blast going through all the old content. However after reaching end game after about 2 months, I found myself bored out of my mind. I actually just resubbed after not playing for a while and regretted it lol. I know these are just my experiences but I'm sure many people share my thoughts.

I agree with you. What this game has going for it is the leveling and the story, once you hit max level and you're interested in Pve content, you're outta luck. There's no gear progression, the savage raids are okay but there's only 4 fights per tier. No overworld content (beast tribes you do in 10 minutes, hunts lol), crafting that's really really tedious and expensive to get into, gathering ruined by bots and having to wait for nodes to appear is not fun. If you're not into glamour and housing, this is not the game for you. And the devs know this, they can put out cute mounts and glams and have 500k players at any given time. SE probably made more money from the fat cat mount than the sub money of every savage raider in the game put together in the past few months.

And when SHB hits, it'll be the same old story, I'll do the MSQ, clear the ex primals, maybe do some savage and quit until 5.3 after a month. That is, if I even decide to get SHB. I'm well aware there's not going to be any changes to the gear progression system nor will there be more raids.

[Kazrah]

So I'll break down my views for each of these sections.

The Open World:

While each of these zones may seem a bit empty, it shouldn't be so much about putting more things into each of these zones (which could be more punishing to players trying to level through it), but rather putting more incentive into open-world content, which is something not even World of Warcraft can pull off at times.

Hunts do a good job of this at the start of each expansion, but beyond that point is when there's no incentive to do them because the rewards for them become outdated. Updating hunt rewards and perhaps making the S rank and A rank hunts more powerful would be the easiest and laziest approach, but there's also increasing rewards for fates as endgame content (i.e. giving a small amount of tomestones, endgame crafting items, etc.) for max level that would help on this front as well.

Flying:

I remember when World of Warcraft removed flying for its Warlords of Draenor expansion with the belief that with enough ground content, you wouldn't ever want or need flying. While the slight majority of players agreed during a time in which they had flying, all players would find out that no matter how much ground content devs put into a zone, it will never be enough to justify the removal of flight. Even worse, too much ground content without some sort of easier personal means of travel can discourage players from doing that content, and that lead to one of the major reasons why World of Warcraft lost so many players during that Warlords of Draenor expansion that FFXIV manage to beat them in subscriber count.

In short, WoW players believed that flying ruined the game. It took one expansion to show them how horribly wrong that claim was. Even now, while WoW players still still how more and better ground content than they've ever had, there is still clamoring for flight in those newer zones. Flight is here to stay, and I'd argue that how this game deals with flight is one that WoW should (at least partially) take a page from.

Glamours and Customization:

Now this I'll agree with you on. I love the level 65 sets from Bardam's Mettle, and one of my biggest gripes has always been that only the dyeable versions of that gear has been for crafters and gatherers. There's just no reason to it. Unfortunately, the counterargument as to why we have so many gear items class-locked, at least for crafter and gatherer gear, comes in the form of players trying to use it in dungeons for spiritbonding as a means of getting cheap materia and demimateria. Any solution to remedy that part of the problem would definitely have to include something to prevent players from trying to abuse that system.

As for the designs, I think it's because it's a lot easier to rework older sets already in the game than trying to make sets from scratch within what I suspect are pretty strict timetables, especially if my theory is correct in that more resources have been pulled away from XIV and placed on other projects like Dragon Quest or some other Square-Enix game (most likely a mobile game because that's where the money is these days). I think we're also at a point in the game where we don't necessarily need as many brand-new gear sets because of not only how many sets there already are in the game, but also the fact that a larger number of players have likely already locked in what glamours they prefer with not a lot of possibility for newer options changing their minds. It's not to say that we shouldn't get more new gear sets (we totally should), but it's relatively low-priority compared to other things being brought into the game.

Dungeons, Trials, and Raids:

I mostly agree with you on dungeons, but I also understand that a lot of players doing dungeons (especially expert roulette) just want to get them over with. Too difficult or too complex, and you wind up with situations like The Burn, where it even now still proves too punishing for some groups to do and results in a waste of time without a dungeon completed.

Trials are pretty much the same because there's never really been a need to change them up.

With raids, while I do agree that something to differentiate them from trials, adding trash mobs isn't really going to do that. How I see raids though isn't a group of short trials so much as something along the lines of the 24-player raids separated into parts for the sake of convenience so that not every group has to start all the way back at round one. Maybe some of that convenience could be taken away, but the goal of those 8-player raids is to test the best of players, and things like trash mobs before a boss don't really do that.

Gear Rewards, Progression, and Raiders:

This is probably the claim on yours I agree with the most primarily because of the fact that there is far too much content aimed at the more hardcore among the playerbase. Savage and Ultimate do enough of a job for catering to that group, but with Eureka really being added into that, it just makes content as a casual player no longer worth it (which is why I'm taking a break from the game now).

Highest quality gear should undoubtedly go to the raiders who have earned it, but there definitely needs to be a point where raiders need to be told that they're not the group of players who pay most of the bills for the game, but rather the casuals. WoW learned that with their Cataclysm expansion bleeding millions of subscribers because content was too hard for the less tryhard players, and this game needs a moment like that as well.

Early Leveling Structure and Player Retention:

So early leveling does need a lookover, especially when it comes to post-expansion patch story and really ARR story in general. As much as I like the story and as much as Square-Enix loves to write their stories, I think it's okay for some stuff to get gutted if it's for the sake of keeping the game lowbie-friendly and consistent when it comes to leveling (like not being almost the HW level cap when you get through ARR).

As for job leveling, you also forgot DRK feeling incomplete until getting its active mitigation ability at level 70. To make matters worse, Yoshi has even said that they only test jobs on two levels at max level only: 1) a dummy test for standstill performance and 2) a "fight scenario" test that gauges performance during some circumstances requiring dodging and other short movement. There is no testing for lower levels, and while there could be a timetable excuse, ground-up testing is something that really does needs to be looked at.

I also think MCH just as a job in general needs to be reworked from scratch. No one should need a PhD in math or a screen-wide chart just to explain how a job in the game works, especially when it comes to that hectic make-or-break opener that MCH has.

Ideas On Alternative Gear Progression:

As far as primal jewelry goes, Lakshmi is only an odd exception mainly because we already had another primal at that time to get weapons from that matched that item level. Maybe either have only rings or have them purchasable-only without having them on the drop table because players doing primals only go there for weapons and mounts.

As for crafted, I think that'd only work if it was either bind-on-craft and never be sellable on the market board or only have the base version sellable with a bind-on-craft component to upgrade them. The goal would be something to not only promote more players crafting, but to ensure that you can't simply gil-purchase your way to top-end gear.

Please, we really need a change. I never thought I'd get bored of FFXIV. I've always been a huge fan and it really sucks to see it this way. Not even taking a break for 2 patches did anything at all.

Even though I agree with you on a better portion of your post, I see those first two points that seem so heavily based on personal preference on what the game should be rather than what it is that I wonder if this is the right game for you at all, and that's okay. I'm not a white knight by any means (I have enough forum bans for what I've said about SE to prove it), but I know what the game is and why I still intend on coming back to it once those free transfers come our way and prep myself for Shadowbringers.

[rattles]

This might sound weird but I don't think the main problem is things like Eureka or hardcore raiding its the gearing system itself. The reason so many people are not doing things like Eureka is not because its a grind but because the grind isnt worth it. if the gear becomes redundant at the next main patch. If square made it so you only had to get tomestone gear once / crafting gear once (maybe make the crafting gear sellable after using it. They could then have rather than just raid gear being the highest level have system like you would need atleast tomestone gear / crafted gear to be strong enough for Eureka / primal fights, The gear sets for primals and eureka could have unique effects for example having the full left side Eureka armor set could increase accuracy / The primals could have a stacked regen effect increasing for each piece equipped, and the savage raid gear set (make it left side only) could its own passive effect for having the full set that would make it stronger then the rest and make raid gear capable of being 5 melded while the rest could be 2 melded. Ultimate fights could drop Weapons a bit stronger par with relics and have a slim chance to drop the strongest accessories in the game that could have unique effects making them better then primal accessories.

The 24 man could drop gear a bit weaker then crafted gear but would generally be focused for alts and casual content kinda as it is but could also be used for certain pieces of the relic like one of items needed could drop at the end of the loot pull or is individual loot.

The relic could be designed to always be the second best weapon and be current time rather than later on to make people willing to work for it.

Since they release multiple raids in cycles etc. For the raids they could have each gear set be stronger then the previous with a similar stackable effect but don't have catchup gear to make all the previous content irrelevent make people work for it thats the kind of grind people enjoy. Theres no point saying get this previous raid gear or just wait for tomestone gear to get better. If raid gear is the only one to go up it won't effect previous gear as much.

In the case if new primal fights (Since they kinda come in sets) come out just have the accessories have a different effect then people can mix and match pieces.

I know its not a simple system to work with but the current gearing system feels way to streamlined and almost not motivating to do it as it will just become completely useless in a couple of week / months.

[Shurrikhan]

In short, WoW players believed that flying ruined the game. It took one expansion to show them how horribly wrong that claim was. Even now, while WoW players still still how more and better ground content than they've ever had, there is still clamoring for flight in those newer zones. Flight is here to stay, and I'd argue that how this game deals with flight is one that WoW should (at least partially) take a page from.

On the whole, I have to side with the WoW players here. I didn't expect the loss of flight to be a good thing before it happened, but I've actually been rather pleased with the result. And let's be fair: loss of flight, alone, did not kill Draenor's open world activity. While Draenor may have been a step in a decent direction in terms of open world content, it was only a drop into an empty bucket, which then competed in many ways with the far more progressed Garrison system. Why go out when you can farm a half-hour's worth of herbs in 20 seconds from your garden? Why do the open world content when you could just do missions and bonus-ed dungeon finder content? Given how near the open world content was to flight paths, the lack of flight was almost irrelevant. Travel times were mostly unchanged. So what actually changed? Ground mounts didn't kill the open world; honestly, given that flight tended to be post-level-cap anyways, was make it a little harder to be griefed on PvP servers.

Open world player activity post-cap increased more than sixfold come Legion, and it's still running far higher than any time before WoD, despite not having flight. Flight Whistles and further bonuses to travel times have since been added, but the largest factor has simply been that the open world gained significant rewards. Those rewards won't apply to all, but there's enough of a casual playerbase that they do see very real use.

Edit: And let's not pretend that convenient access open world content need come from one and only one, barebone-as-possible, version of flight. The above Flight Whistles and travel-improving traits are just a couple examples, but there are dozens more mechanics that could apply, increasing access without making topography, map design, and mob camp layouts all irrelevant. Heck, remember the rental chocobos from 1.x, or rental gryphons/wyverns from WotLK? That was player-controlled, free-roaming, but limited. It offered new interactions with the environment more so than it nullified map interactions. Honestly, I found both of those examples of extending player access/convenience far, far superior to the Aether Currents system we've gotten since. Gryphon up the Storm Peaks to find until-then hidden content, and, if needed, parachute down after finishing all you need to do up there. Certain quests provide the way up for free. Cheaply rent a chocobo to get you out to where you need to go to meet up with your team, and then use (at that time shorter-cooldown, and able to bond with a further layer of warp points that could not be directly teleported to) Return to get back easily. There was more reason to settle on and progress through a given location, rather than the globe-hopping FATEs, hunts, and World Quests have turned the open world into.

[Derio]

I just hope they have more open world content and realize that a relic is not suppose to be tied to exploration type content. And that raids need to be raids not 1 boss in 1 room.

[purgatori]

This is probably the claim on yours I agree with the most primarily because of the fact that there is far too much content aimed at the more hardcore among the playerbase. Savage and Ultimate do enough of a job for catering to that group, but with Eureka really being added into that, it just makes content as a casual player no longer worth it (which is why I'm taking a break from the game now).

Highest quality gear should undoubtedly go to the raiders who have earned it, but there definitely needs to be a point where raiders need to be told that they're not the group of players who pay most of the bills for the game, but rather the casuals. WoW learned that with their Cataclysm expansion bleeding millions of subscribers because content was too hard for the less tryhard players, and this game needs a moment like that as well.

Thank you for saying this. It's something that isn't said enough, even by casuals—mostly because they're shouted down by the hardcore players who think we want to take away their savage raids/ex content. Personally, I was hoping that SB would serve as the object lesson that SE needed in order to course correct and resolve to clearly delineate hardcore from casual content. Unfortunately, with BLU coming out shortly before ShB I can only infer that they haven't learn much, if anything, over the lifespan in terms of how to cater to these very divergent portions of the playerbase. BLU, HoH, and, to a lesser extent, Eureka+BA, are all examples of content with a low entry point that, initially, allows for casuals to make decent progress, but in each case, the really good stuff is held back for the people who have an abundance of time & skill available... And yet, for these people, the rewards aren't really satisfying, and the challenges not really challenging (at least compared to some of the hardest content available in the game).

I feel like the only bits of content that have catered really well to casual players are: the MSQ, PotD, and crafting/gathering. The MSQ, in particular, has that really nice balance of throwing interesting challenges every now and then at the casual player, while also not throwing up barriers that they can't surmount unless they're prepared to work FFXIV as a second job. But the MSQ isn't repeatable content, crafting is not something that I, at least, want to be doing for the majority of the time I have available to spend in the game, and PotD was succeeded by HoH, which has precisely 10 floors worth of content worth doing for casual players.

I'm hoping that Trusts will help... But then I held out similar hopes for Squadrons and BLU, so I can't say that I'm all that optimistic for ShB outside of the MSQ and the 24 man... And I don't even like the raids, I'm just a NieR fanboy.

[Imuka]

It depends on what you see as a "hardcore Player", if people call Eureka a Hardcore Content.
The Time investment is pretty hardcore, but everything else is...lets be honest here, on such a Basic Level that even the most unskilled Player feels unchallenged by it.

For me, Eureka always felt like the Devs took one 0,5l Bottle of Beer and mixed it with 5 Liters of Water, to have more "Beer".