Baldesion Arsenal Feedback

[Chiami]

I think it is really difficult to create content like this in a "one fits all" way, given differences in how various regions approach it. BA is a novel concept within XIV, and we see how it highlights differences in style which are hard to bridge if sticking with the current format -- if anything I want to hand the devs some aspirin as they have to deal with this kind of headache now.

Something I noticed though beyond the issue of portals/PUGs vs DF/PF, and while playing on Aether (no idea if the same issue exists on other datacenters) is a general problem with the fact that BA is directly linked into Hydatos instances. Once people enter BA suddenly up to 56 people are gone from the instance, and prepping any high-level NMs becomes even more difficult than it is anyway, given a good chunk of the Eureka population is sitting by default at base semi-afking and waiting for NMs (hopefully) spawned by others to pop. Remove 1/3 to half of the instance into BA on top of that and... well, yeah, you get the picture.

I just came out of an instance and there was exactly ONE group prepping the dragon, and just getting this single party together took an incredible amount of cajoling. You can imagine how long that entire effort to spawn PW took... X_x (but at least it popped, while I have spent more hours than I want to count on fruitlessly trying to get a prep for high-level NMs in Hydatos going in any meaningful way...)

Therefore I think a direct link between Hydatos and BA is a bit on the problematic side to begin with (at least on NA servers? idk...), but given there is the entire thing with the support FATE I see no real way how to address this issue now. If anything it might be something to consider for future content of this kind -- depriving an instance hinging on plenty of players doing things of... well, active players by sending them to another instance can cause unintended problems.

That aside, and something which might alleviate at least some of the problems for NA could be a system which allows premades to chose what instance they enter (Hydatos 1, Hydatos 2, Hydatos 3 etc.) -- that way quite a bit of stress and hassle would be removed from the picture. Combining this with a clear labeling of "Arsenal" instances vs. normal Eureka instances could also be an idea, so that people who want to specifically enter BA, and/or do the support FATE there could enter Arsenal-instances (and as 56-man premades all but hog or even "create" such an instance, thus also less bickering about portals on NA servers), while those who do not wish to see their efforts to prep high-level NMs hindered by suddenly "losing" up to 56 players to Arsenal go to "pure" Eureka instances. I just worry a bit about that approach, as it could leave one or the other type nearly drying up... >.>

[ShratNevor]

Agree! SE should have set up a system, that rewarded the people outside the BA for thier help or made it more of a raid where you could form your parties and enter without causing all the chaos...

[RitsukoSonoda]

Agree! SE should have set up a system, that rewarded the people outside the BA for thier help or made it more of a raid where you could form your parties and enter without causing all the chaos...

IMO I think the best option would have been a sort of prep area you couldn't go back into once you exit it where players could change job classes and form parties.

[Seedling]

Something I noticed though beyond the issue of portals/PUGs vs DF/PF, and while playing on Aether (no idea if the same issue exists on other datacenters) is a general problem with the fact that BA is directly linked into Hydatos instances. Once people enter BA suddenly up to 56 people are gone from the instance, and prepping any high-level NMs becomes even more difficult than it is anyway, given a good chunk of the Eureka population is sitting by default at base semi-afking and waiting for NMs (hopefully) spawned by others to pop. Remove 1/3 to half of the instance into BA on top of that and... well, yeah, you get the picture.

The problem isn't that those 56 people are taking up slots for people that aren't going to farm claws anyway, the problem is that it's a pain and a half to get 56 people in the same instance to begin with... it can easily take half an hour to an hour to find a suitable instance that everyone can enter.

I just came out of an instance and there was exactly ONE group prepping the dragon, and just getting this single party together took an incredible amount of cajoling. You can imagine how long that entire effort to spawn PW took... X_x (but at least it popped, while I have spent more hours than I want to count on fruitlessly trying to get a prep for high-level NMs in Hydatos going in any meaningful way...)

Once people have their 5 scales (2 PWs), there is no incentive to farm more unless you actually went through the grind to get multiple 4.0 relic weapons. So it's no surprise that some instances have trouble getting people to farm claws for 3 hours, only to get kicked out midfight...

Therefore I think a direct link between Hydatos and BA is a bit on the problematic side to begin with (at least on NA servers? idk...), but given there is the entire thing with the support FATE I see no real way how to address this issue now. If anything it might be something to consider for future content of this kind -- depriving an instance hinging on plenty of players doing things of... well, active players by sending them to another instance can cause unintended problems.

Fates are scaled to the number of people in the instance (BA players are excluded, they have a special player flag in search.)
The support group is generally the one dealing with dispelling and debuffing Tristitia, beyond that it's a matter of dodging the dual cast aoes like any other FATE boss. Except you get 30 crystals as a reward.

That aside, and something which might alleviate at least some of the problems for NA could be a system which allows premades to chose what instance they enter (Hydatos 1, Hydatos 2, Hydatos 3 etc.) -- that way quite a bit of stress and hassle would be removed from the picture. Combining this with a clear labeling of "Arsenal" instances vs. normal Eureka instances could also be an idea, so that people who want to specifically enter BA, and/or do the support FATE there could enter Arsenal-instances (and as 56-man premades all but hog or even "create" such an instance, thus also less bickering about portals on NA servers), while those who do not wish to see their efforts to prep high-level NMs hindered by suddenly "losing" up to 56 players to Arsenal go to "pure" Eureka instances. I just worry a bit about that approach, as it could leave one or the other type nearly drying up... >.>

Dedicated instances for BA would be preferable, but the main issues are:
* There's no way to get 7 full parties in a single instance, other then through luck and perseverence. (FFXI solved this by using hourglass clones.)
* There should be 6 portals, and only the party leader can initiate entry into BA. Portals should not be solo entrances, especially with some in the middle of some very dangerous mobs.
* Stabilizers should be removed, they are purely meant to grief. Or they could be used to make Spirit of the Remembered be 100% successfull, but it consumes the stabilizer.

[Rhus]

* Stabilizers should be removed, they are purely meant to grief. Or they could be used to make Spirit of the Remembered be 100% successfull, but it consumes the stabilizer.

Lol. I very much doubt square would intentionally put an item and make said item easier to get with lowering the cost involved in purchasing it with the intent behind it of causing grief. It is there to be used to gain entry to BA. The fact it is there should tell everyone in NA/EU we are doing this wrong. We find a different way to do the content. It does not mean the item in question can't be used or is being used for grief. It's being used to do what it was meant to do. Allow a player priority entry to BA.

[Physic]

The problem isn't that those 56 people are taking up slots for people that aren't going to farm claws anyway, the problem is that it's a pain and a half to get 56 people in the same instance to begin with... it can easily take half an hour to an hour to find a suitable instance that everyone can enter.


Once people have their 5 scales (2 PWs), there is no incentive to farm more unless you actually went through the grind to get multiple 4.0 relic weapons. So it's no surprise that some instances have trouble getting people to farm claws for 3 hours, only to get kicked out midfight...


Fates are scaled to the number of people in the instance (BA players are excluded, they have a special player flag in search.)
The support group is generally the one dealing with dispelling and debuffing Tristitia, beyond that it's a matter of dodging the dual cast aoes like any other FATE boss. Except you get 30 crystals as a reward.



Dedicated instances for BA would be preferable, but the main issues are:
* There's no way to get 7 full parties in a single instance, other then through luck and perseverence. (FFXI solved this by using hourglass clones.)
* There should be 6 portals, and only the party leader can initiate entry into BA. Portals should not be solo entrances, especially with some in the middle of some very dangerous mobs.
* Stabilizers should be removed, they are purely meant to grief. Or they could be used to make Spirit of the Remembered be 100% successfull, but it consumes the stabilizer.

most of the things you think a wrong, are because you dont understand the purpose of the content.

they wanted a PUBLIC dungeon, where anyone who was around could participate in any attempt, with equal chance. None of the things you think of accidents were accidents, they were done on purpose to make it difficult to exclude random players from joining existing runs. They didnt want groups monopolizing the content.

it definitely has flaws, but your solutions dont make sense because they dont solve the actual flaws.

the question SE was trying to answer, how can we make a public dungeon that is an endgame element of eureka, that all max level players can participate in, if they choose to do so publically, just by being in the instance.

premade groups holding slots away from players was the opposite of their intent. If they wanted to make that, they already have tons of already built tools to do so.

[Alucard135]

they wanted a PUBLIC dungeon, where anyone who was around could participate in any attempt, with equal chance.

Yet, no one is doing the content the same way SE intended here in the west. Instances without discord group, don't touch BA. Instances with discord group gets targeted by snipers. Both of those are NOT what SE intended.

And before you say snipers are doing what SE intended, I'm talking about the snipers that actively hop from one instance to another chasing discord groups. Not some random who just happened to be in one.

[DrWho2010]

Yet, no one is doing the content the same way SE intended here in the west. Instances without discord group, don't touch BA.

That's more on the community than on the devs. JP seems to do fine but that seems to be a cultural thing that randos there can come together and work on something whereas in NA it's more every man for himself unless someone takes it upon themselves to organize something and then the leeches come out of the aether to latch on to them.

[Physic]

Yet, no one is doing the content the same way SE intended here in the west. Instances without discord group, don't touch BA. Instances with discord group gets targeted by snipers. Both of those are NOT what SE intended.

And before you say snipers are doing what SE intended, I'm talking about the snipers that actively hop from one instance to another chasing discord groups. Not some random who just happened to be in one.

actually SE did intend for randoms to jump in on more organized runs. If they didnt they would have used the same party finder mechanics they use elsewhere in the game. And they wouldnt have made an item that literally allows anyone to skip ahead of anyone else.

SE is fine with people using discord to communicate, they are not fine with anyone claiming spots, thats the entire reason they chose portals and aether stabilizers over party finders and premade queues.

you are not supposed to claim a BA run, thats why SE makes impossible to claim a BA run.

[Alucard135]

actually SE did intend for randoms to jump in on more organized runs.

I did explicitly say in my reply that I'm not talking about randoms in the instance....

I'm talking about the snipers that actively hop from one instance to another chasing discord groups. Not some random who just happened to be in one.