Love for the female characters

[Shibi]

Go figure. I'm one of the few that actually like Minfillia

I liked her too, but she was real annoying with her...

Linkshell beep: WoL, can you drop what you are doing and come to the solar? Now please!
Aetherite and 10 minute run (pre turkey mount) plus the zone through two doors packed with people (first week of ARR)
Minfilia: Ah, WoL, Tataru needs some rat tails for some obscure Lalafell ritual. Go fetch 10 of them from the other side of the map please.

But I still like her.

[Iscah]

I liked her too, but she was real annoying with her...

Linkshell beep: WoL, can you drop what you are doing and come to the solar? Now please!
Aetherite and 10 minute run (pre turkey mount) plus the zone through two doors packed with people (first week of ARR)
Minfilia: Ah, WoL, Tataru needs some rat tails for some obscure Lalafell ritual. Go fetch 10 of them from the other side of the map please.

But I still like her.

Next time I play through ARR (not for a while!) I'm going to try to keep track of what she actually summons us for.

Logically there are reasons to get called back for a face-to-face conversation - message security, discussing things with multiple people, etc. and I really can't remember whether we get summoned back just for inane fetchquests or not.

The new leader of Isghard (forgot his name too) who fought dragon, put an end to a big war, destroyed the monoteism rule, and so on [...]

Aymeric didn't exactly "destroy the monotheism rule", if you're thinking in terms of "tearing down the church and abandoning worship of Halone" - he's split government from being run by the church, but the church is still there. Other than the false stories about Thordan and the dragons, the actual religion has come out of this fairly intact. (And it's not quite monotheism, as they do realise Halone is one amongst the Twelve, She's just their patron goddess.)

[Edax]

Next time I play through ARR (not for a while!) I'm going to try to keep track of what she actually summons us for.

Logically there are reasons to get called back for a face-to-face conversation - message security, discussing things with multiple people, etc. and I really can't remember whether we get summoned back just for inane fetchquests or not.

If you can't remember, then it probably wasn't very important.

[Vahlnir]

If you can't remember, then it probably wasn't very important.

[Barraind]

Minfia pokes us for quests that take us to:

Primals
Beast Tribe introductions
"Garlemald is doing stuff we have to stop them" plotlines
And she introduces you to most of the scions out on field missions.

Shes, uh, the driver for a whole lot of plot in her managerial role.

[Vidu]

My "issue" with Minfilia was never that the task she was giving us didnt seem important, but that it didnt seem important that those quests were given by her or that she herself was important. I never played 1.0, so I cant say if she was really a better or more active character there, but she clearly isnt in ARR.

I get that administrative and diplomatic are important aswell, but we see other characters handle both those and take an active part in the story - most noticeably Tataru, who isnt just the secretary but takes on other profressions and at least tries to become more of a fighter (even though she fails). Urianger, who also is a more passive character who just stands around in our headquarters to send us to fight primals, takes a more active role. Kan-E-Senna, who is the leader of a nation, makes the effort to travel to meet with the moogles and fights with us during the latest story dungeon. We see Alphinaud trying his hands on diplomacy while still being out in the field.
And Minfilia? She... just sits there in her office, sending us onto missions, being little more than a messanger herself it seems. It is an important task, but non that Tataru or Urianger or a note pinned to the door couldnt have taken care of.
Or at least its not a role that varrants as much attention as shes getting. Its my understanding shes getting all of that attention because shes the "founder" of the Scions (here, again: good old Louisiax, who founded a similar orginasition and eventually merged the two, is seen in action despite being a fragile old man!) but at a certain point that "fame" isnt worth much anymore and you'd need to do something new to earn fame/respect again. Its like this one friend from school whos telling you about this very cool soccer-goal they scored in 10th grade for the you-have-lost-count-time while you're sitting there, wondering "...that was 20 years ago, what have you done since then?!" (and the answer to that is: Nothing of importance, really.)

But I could even live with all of that if it wasnt for two things:
The whole damsel in distress trope that happens to her twice. Further hurt by the fact that she wasnt captured during a fight or anything - I wouldnt have an issue with us rescuing female characters who have been captured on the battlefield or are cornered during a fight or anything of that nature!
But Minfilia is nothing more than a helpless creature at this point - a creature, I'm not all that convinced is really important for the whole story.
There is also absolutly no reason why she is so helpless - sure, she doesnt has to be an amazing warrior or anything, but not being able to defend yourself or fight at all in a world like this, with the position you're holding?
Sure, maybe she was knocked out right away by some spell or whatever, but after the first capture-rescure-thing would have been such a bad idea to not only move the headquarters but also try to brush up on your self defense skills? Tataru does that! Minfilia just picks new curtains for the office or something along those lines...

My second problem with her is actually her looks. Everything about her screams "I'm here for eye candy purposes!" - nothing against pretty or good looking characters, by far not! Most of the NPCs are good looking in one way or the other after all. But, as I mentioned above, I dont see Minfilia having a strong character or a real purpose in the story of ARR onwards to begin with, which made it always seem to me as if shes mainly there, so people can stare at a pretty blonde.
How am I supposed to take a diplomat wearing what shes wearing seriously? Her clothes arent bad in general, but they're bad for helping her to fullfill her role, by drawing way to much attention to "Look how pretty she is!" and away from any other good qualities she might have.
Maybe thats a special pet pevee of mine, but putting female characters in revealing or "sexy" clothes just for the sake of it always rubs me the wrong way. That they're treating most of the other female cast with more respect in that way by giving them clothes that either fit their culture or are at least practical (I'm not a fan of the outfits Lyse and Yda are wearing, but I get that you probably want to wear a little less as a monk to have more freedom of movement, so they get a pass), is making matters worse for Minfilia because to me that underlines her status as "eye candy and nothing more".

Maybe she was a better character with an actual important role that could only be fullfilled by her in 1.0, I cant say. But for ARR onwards her main purpose to me has been "that pretty blonde to look at" and since I'm not intrested in looking at pretty blonde ladies, Minfilia didnt to much for me, so to speak...
We see other people taking care of her tasks at the same time she is taking care of them, and we see people take over for her with ease after shes gone - shes easly replaced and I have to say that the whole "The Scions are falling apart without her"-thing seemed extremly constructed and silly to me at that time - and hey, I was right! We're still meeting up, we're still following our course, we just dont have a telephonist whos calling everyone on their linkpearls anymore to get everyone back to headquarters. Oh well, we can do that ourselves, right?

Minfilia could have been a good and intresting character, if they'd only shown her do ANYTHING. We're only being told that shes important - I cant recall a quest or anything that actually showed her as being irreplaceable or at the very least relevant at all. Maybe I dont remember well anymore, its been a few years after all...
But if you want to make me believe that shes important, dont just tell me that - show me Minfilia arguing with Merlwyb about how the Scions (and the WoL) get to fix their mess with the beasttribes! Show me Minfilia trying to secure funds from Nanamo, even from someone like Lolorito or Gegeruju (maybe she could make use of her... features but be disgusted by that herself afterwards?)! Let her talk with Kan-E-Senna about Gridanias xenophobia - after all Minfilia should have a deep understanding about the problem of being an outcast, seeing how the whole purpose of the Scions was to create a home for Echo-users.
Show her doing stuff like Tataru does - have her create means to earn the Scions some money and put echo-users who dont fight to "good use", by having them craft things. Give her a little garden that she tends to herself, trying to provide at least for those who come back to the headquarter and need a meal, if you dont want to let her fight!
...just... anything... anything more than just a tummy top, blonde hair and blue eyes...

[Kazhim]

Next time I play through ARR (not for a while!) I'm going to try to keep track of what she actually summons us for.

Logically there are reasons to get called back for a face-to-face conversation - message security, discussing things with multiple people, etc. and I really can't remember whether we get summoned back just for inane fetchquests or not.





Aymeric didn't exactly "destroy the monotheism rule", if you're thinking in terms of "tearing down the church and abandoning worship of Halone" - he's split government from being run by the church, but the church is still there. Other than the false stories about Thordan and the dragons, the actual religion has come out of this fairly intact. (And it's not quite monotheism, as they do realise Halone is one amongst the Twelve, She's just their patron goddess.)

no but i didnt get other word to express my mind, so i wrote that

[Kazhim]

well cant express myself better.

at the end, i dont know what developper looked for by setting a such caracter for marketing conception -_-

[Lersayil]

Minfia pokes us for quests that take us to:

Primals
Beast Tribe introductions
"Garlemald is doing stuff we have to stop them" plotlines
And she introduces you to most of the scions out on field missions.

Shes, uh, the driver for a whole lot of plot in her managerial role.

Minfilia is THE bad example of showing and not telling. We are told she is capable and awesome and she is/was basically carrying the Scions on her back. Now she is gone, but other than the occasional "Oh i so miss Minfilia, its so much harder without her" line we are doing reasonably fine.

They could've shown us every now and then that she was actually busy with something, or butt in on one of her diplomatic meetings and listen in. It would've done wonders for her image.

Most people like competent characters. I think thats one of the irks people have with current Lyse too.

[BillyKaplan]

Pitching in on the Minfillia debate, Vidu summed up most of what I wanted to say. She didn't even give us too much with the Echo because the only times we're shown her using it are times when we use it too, and it's more of a reminder that she shares the gift rather than give her any true significance. The one time I can think of where any of that is different is at the very end of ARR where she didn't even contribute much at the moment, but was needed to later on be used as a literal mouth-piece for Hydaelyn. Now, I do appreciate it on a plot level because if anything gives us proof Hydaelyn effectively Tempers the Echo users, it's Minfillia - even the WoL has more backbone when dealing with that glowing rock than Minfillia does! But in a way that was also the last nail in the coffin of her as a character. She became a literal puppet, and I'm not sure how much that will be fixed in ShB.
And the saddest thing is, so far the biggest impact her disappearance left was an increase in Thancred's manpain, similar to how Moen's death forced Urianger to show personality and emotions. Broadening that because this is something the thread is about, the game likes to fridge women, even if their deaths did not occur for the precise, direct intent of giving the guys something to cry over. Moen sacrificed herself to stop an Ascian but 90% of the time when we hear about her, it's because Urianger's having A Moment, while Yda - Lyce - has moved on and hardly thinks of her anymore. Ysayle's death was the epitome of redemption but it's mostly played to make Estinien and Alphinaud sad. Minfilia gives F'lheminn some nice moments but they're mostly in side quests while Thancred gets most of it.
And of course, beloved Yotsuyu - whose own arc I adored and I'm glad they didn't pull a last minute full-on redemption on her. But the thing that the story takes away from that is how sad Gosetsu is and the focus shifts from how she died having found a semblance of peace at long last to him.

And it's kind of weird when I think about it because I don't think any of the dead guys got that sort of treatment, with the note-worthy exception of Haurchefant. But his death also echoed across Ishgard as a whole, you don't get the one lone character moping about it, no. His brothers change how they behave and are forced into different roles, his father and Aymeric shift gears as well, and you, the WoL, the person Hauchy died for? You get, on top of several side quests and scenes, you get the frigging 60-70 DRK questline.
Not any one guy's death was reduced longterm to someone else's pain, not like the ladies'. Not that I can remember anyway. closest, maybe, is Conrad. But even that was mostly because if he had remained alive, no one would've let Lyce run the show in the first place