In regards to the "Warrior of Darkness"; how far is too far?

[Anger]

We have been the Warrior of Light since the beginning. Every threat to Eorzea has been stopped or diminished by us thus far.

Despite this we are now supposed to become the opposite of everything we've fought for. As the "Warrior of Darkness" how far will be too far? A lot of people don't want to play the evildoer or take part in evil deeds.

I can see that this could ultimately cause problems for the player base if some of the quests follow what the Warriors of Darkness' have been doing in the past.

• Terrorizing Beastmen Tribes to summon stronger primals
• Focus on killing the Warrior of Light
• Forming an alliance with the Ascians
• Renouncing their physical forms.

So, what if the player is given a quest akin to "Terrorize the local beastmen tribes to summon X primal"? How would that make you feel? How would you respond? Are you okay with this?

[Bright-Flower]

I highly doubt they're going to go far in the direction of actual moral ambiguity with it. More likely we'll end up fighting light aligned bad guys like that angel thing in the trailer rather than terrorizing innocent people. I mean this is the game where we had a job questline that had to bring out ilberd and the heavens ward when trying to make a point about the dark side of what the WOL does for the SB DRK questline. They squandered the chance to have the rebels do anything actually morally questionable in order to defeat the empire in SB. This is the game that made Zenos intentionally unsympathetic to overcorrect for people wanting to side with Gaius in ARR.

I don't expect that being the Warrior of Darkness will turn us into antiheroes doing bad things to save the world, I think it'll mostly end up resulting in a shift in who we fight for the expansion while still making them bad guys we have to stop. Maybe some light aligned entity that WANTS to start a flood of light or something.

[Vidu]

I feel you're making two wrongful assumptions here:
First, that the Warrior of Darkness has to be evil. I'm pretty sure thats not the point - they point is that we tipped the scale to much in the favour of the light, by being to heroic. We'll have to find a way to balance that out, without resorting to mass murder.

Which leads me to assumption number 2: That we're gonna like the Warriors of Darkness did before. Remember, that they were desperate in trying to cause a calamity.
I dont think that causing a calamity is our endgoal (...might happen though, judging from the trailer). I expect this to be more in the favour of keeping or restoring a balance, which makes us still the "good guy", just with less primal slaying.
...and less primal summoning, actually - I dont think that provoking Beast Tribes to summon their primals would help our goal of "balance". Same goes for the Ascians: They dont strife balance in our world.

I think you're missunderstanding the terms Light and Darkness in the context of this game. Its not "Good" and "Evil" and you still get to be the hero who saves the world in the end. By now you only realised that saving the world doesnt mean to kill everything that looks remotly like a threat anymore.

[Anger]

I highly doubt they're going to go far in the direction of actual moral ambiguity with it. More likely we'll end up fighting light aligned bad guys like that angel thing in the trailer rather than terrorizing innocent people. I mean this is the game where we had a job questline that had to bring out ilberd and the heavens ward when trying to make a point about the dark side of what the WOL does for the SB DRK questline. They squandered the chance to have the rebels do anything actually morally questionable in order to defeat the empire in SB. This is the game that made Zenos intentionally unsympathetic to overcorrect for people wanting to side with Gaius in ARR.

I don't expect that being the Warrior of Darkness will turn us into antiheroes doing bad things to save the world, I think it'll mostly end up resulting in a shift in who we fight for the expansion while still making them bad guys we have to stop. Maybe some light aligned entity that WANTS to start a flood of light or something.

I sure hope you're right. However, I could see us going down the antihero path. Imagine if we had to summon a primal to "cause problems" for the Garlean's and other threats.

[Vidu]

I sure hope you're right. However, I could see us going down the antihero path. Imagine if we had to summon a primal to "cause problems" for the Garlean's and other threats.

We've actually done this. Summon a primal to cause trouble for the Garleans, I mean. Or, well, not so much we but rather Ysayle who summons Shiva at the end of HW to buy us some time. And if we want to summon more primals, we could gow down that path again: Befriend the beast tribe, ask them to summon their primal instead of provoking them.

We are, somehow, going to fix this world. And dont fool yourself! You havent been the knight in shining armor this whole time either. You have killed countless beast men (...obviously ONLY because you were provoked!), you have murdered Garleans, as our round table during the last MSQ showed: The people commanding you so far have no idea whats actually going on. All city-states misstreat the beasttribes already. Ul'dah has banned them from the city, Limsa has banned them into those parts of Vylbrand, where nothing grows etc. (despite the beast tribe living there before them).
Our character has been a pawn in this game for a very long time and during that time we havent always been the shiny hero. Well, except of course for the fact that history is written by the winner... and that we won. (Or that thats the story they want to tell us)

[Theodric]

The Warrior of Light has always been a powerful political tool for the Eorzean Alliance and its close allies. I suspect that will be played up even further as of Shadowbringers - and hopefully the Eorzean Alliance is forced to adhere to the same standards it insists on holding others accountable for. If Fordola firing on her own troops in a panic is a war crime and the use of chemical weapons is also a war crime then one has to wonder why Hien condemning many a soul in Doma Castle, with no warning, to a painful death through drowning is not also classed as a war crime. It's an incredibly cruel fate and realistically Doma Castle would have been home to non-combatants as well as a significant number of indentured conscripts. Yet for some reason Hien is given a free pass to use such tactics in the name of avoiding bloodshed on his own side, yet when other factions use the exact same reasoning they're condemned for it.

[HyoMinPark]

I keep thinking about how ShB’s poster job is DRK, and I think back to the original 30-50 DRK storyline. And I wonder if we’ll see some aspects of that in the way our character behaves.

Perhaps more selfish decisions rather than selfless. Perhaps more resistance at always being used as a sort of pawn for whomever wants to make use of us. Perhaps a desire to return to who we used to be...

Or I could be completely wrong and they chose DRK simply because “Warrior of Darkness and what job better fits ‘Darkness’ other than DRK’.

I’ve always wanted to see the side of our character that is presented in the DRK quest tho... Not necessarily the English edgelord side but the side from the original JP.

[Bright-Flower]

The Warrior of Light has always been a powerful political tool for the Eorzean Alliance and its close allies. I suspect that will be played up even further as of Shadowbringers - and hopefully the Eorzean Alliance is forced to adhere to the same standards it insists on holding others accountable for. If Fordola firing on her own troops in a panic is a war crime and the use of chemical weapons is also a war crime then one has to wonder why Hien condemning many a soul in Doma Castle, with no warning, to a painful death through drowning is not also classed as a war crime. It's an incredibly cruel fate and realistically Doma Castle would have been home to non-combatants as well as a significant number of indentured conscripts. Yet for some reason Hien is given a free pass to use such tactics in the name of avoiding bloodshed on his own side, yet when other factions use the exact same reasoning they're condemned for it.

Fordola was called out for firing on her own men but that was an order from Zenos. She wasn't put in jail for that though. The reason she's hated is for what she and the Skulls had done to other Ala Mhigans during the occupation.

I think the msq mentioned something about only imperials being int he castle, but I could be wrong about that...I'd need to double check that part of the msq to be sure.

I'm also surprised that nobody ever seemed to take issue with Hien going into the Steppe and participating in the Nadaam with the intent of dragging the Xaela into Doma's war. The empire apparantly hadn't bothered the Xaela for twenty five years since Doma's fall and there was never any attempt to convince the Xaela the empire was a mutual enemy. In fact the empre only ends up attacking the Steppe at all in SB because they were chasing the WOL.

[Lauront]

I think people are misconstruing what the transformation will entail.

Yes, if you simply drop the Blessing of Light, you would need to do what Arbert did, and kill light-affiliated beings (i.e. you) and generally spread chaos. I honestly don't think this would go far enough, though, particularly if the twin floods are at an advanced stage (hence hypotheses regarding time travel have become popular along with hints thrown at us.)

Tilting the balance towards darkness isn't so much about evil, necessarily, as it is about actions which result in chaos. Hence you had that line at the end of 4.4, where Arbert stresses that it's not about light or darkness but how you use them. Given that light =/= good, light-aspected beings (perhaps resulting from a void of born of light) are not necessarily well intentioned. There's hints in the story that the Source is heading to a flood of light, and yet this is still accompanied by a thinning of the aether. The following words by Jenomis are telling, in regards to the crystals, in regards to the Ascians, in regards to Ultima, but also in regards to these beings of light:

If the being truly hails from some other plane of existence, as Mikoto suggested, then we would be fools to think she might be beholden to the same values we hold dear.

Also, it's just one method. Another would be to carry the blessing of one (or even both) of the crystals - Hydaelyn is aspected to light, and Zodiark to darkness, so actions carried out whilst you are his agent may spread darkness simply by virtue of carrying this blessing. Therefore, if the plot does turn to becoming a bearer of the Blessing of Darkness (there's hints at this, following the events at the House of the Crooked Coin), this would no doubt magnify the effect of any actions that push the balance to darkness.

That said, I do think there will be a shift to actions that promote chaos/don't promote order, but it will be strategic and selective in nature. Perhaps you may let the city-states deal with their own problems more, perhaps you may be a little more indiscriminate in which primals you slay. In terms of cooperating with the Ascians, I am very much predicting some move to work with Elidibus - but no doubt other Ascians will not want to work with you, given who you are, and will consider you anathema to their god's will. This could be exacerbated if Zodiark has limited ability to commune with anyone but you or Elidibus, as some of the Ascians already expressed distrust in Elidibus's methods in the past. Throw in some opportunist, who has his position in their sights, and you can see where that might go.

Purely speculating here, but I think these floods (darkness/light) will be an everlasting threat until the two crystals are rejoined. I also think it will fall on the WoD to find a way to do so that does not involve the only currently known method to do so, the Rejoinings.

We've actually done this. Summon a primal to cause trouble for the Garleans, I mean. Or, well, not so much we but rather Ysayle who summons Shiva at the end of HW to buy us some time. And if we want to summon more primals, we could gow down that path again: Befriend the beast tribe, ask them to summon their primal instead of provoking them.

We are, somehow, going to fix this world. And dont fool yourself! You havent been the knight in shining armor this whole time either. You have killed countless beast men (...obviously ONLY because you were provoked!), you have murdered Garleans, as our round table during the last MSQ showed: The people commanding you so far have no idea whats actually going on. All city-states misstreat the beasttribes already. Ul'dah has banned them from the city, Limsa has banned them into those parts of Vylbrand, where nothing grows etc. (despite the beast tribe living there before them).
Our character has been a pawn in this game for a very long time and during that time we havent always been the shiny hero. Well, except of course for the fact that history is written by the winner... and that we won. (Or that thats the story they want to tell us)

I actually found it amusing that Ul'dah originated the term "beast tribes", for its own gain. Something often attributed to the Garleans, who were at least acting on the belief that these creatures were a constant threat of primal summoning (they were not aware of the Ascian role in this.)

The Warrior of Light has always been a powerful political tool for the Eorzean Alliance and its close allies. I suspect that will be played up even further as of Shadowbringers - and hopefully the Eorzean Alliance is forced to adhere to the same standards it insists on holding others accountable for. If Fordola firing on her own troops in a panic is a war crime and the use of chemical weapons is also a war crime then one has to wonder why Hien condemning many a soul in Doma Castle, with no warning, to a painful death through drowning is not also classed as a war crime. It's an incredibly cruel fate and realistically Doma Castle would have been home to non-combatants as well as a significant number of indentured conscripts. Yet for some reason Hien is given a free pass to use such tactics in the name of avoiding bloodshed on his own side, yet when other factions use the exact same reasoning they're condemned for it.

Most of the city-states have very shady pasts and they still have darker undersides to them, to this day, in spite of the ostensibly good intentions of their spokespersons. Before the WoL came along, they acted no differently to the Garleans in terms of how they dealt with the beast tribes, if not worse in some instances.

[Nestama]

I don't think we'll be doing anything the First's Warriors of Darkness did. They were from a Shard that was going to be returned to the Void (Flood of Light) and Elidibus told them they had to cause a Calamity on the Source to save it. What Elidibus probably "failed" to mention is what may happen to a world that goes through the 'Rejoining' process. While the threat of the Flood is gone, what happens to everyone/thing that lives on that Shard (based on what was said in 4.5, it's implied they cease to exist)? If it wasn't for Urianger, Zodiark would probably be revived and the First, Warriors of Light and Scions present during the fight would have likely perished.

For our characters, it's probably just gonna be fighting/killing as many light-based things as possible so there can be balance. Watch Minfillia end up being the final boss lol