Regarding the Revision of the Prohibited Activities and Account Penalty Policy

[Kaedan]

By the way, square-Enix,
In light of these new terms, I’ve lost all excitement for shadowbringer. Cancelled my physical collectors edition too. I’ve seen a lot of posts on reddit and YouTube of players that have also lost their enthusiasm. Some were even potential new players. I don’t worship video games and don’t really care about new announcements. I wanted to support you more but now more in a observers position. I’m not alone in this feeling but I hope there is a way to fix this P.R.

Talk about overreaction. If you like FF14 enough that you pre-ordered a physical CE, then the smarter move would be to wait if all the doom and gloom you predict comes true before you attempt to threaten SE and now probably permanently lose the chance of getting a physical CE.

Again, these changes aren't anything dramatic. They're simply saying that they will police bad behavior other than racism and sexual harassment.

I'm not going to make any harsh judgments about the ToS changes until people actually report getting punished for insanely petty reasons at a noticeably higher rate then before.

Precisely this. People should hold off on their doom and gloom until they actually see people being banned for trivial reasons. I'm 99% certain there won't be an increase.

[Negotiator]

Talk about overreaction. If you like FF14 enough that you pre-ordered a physical CE, then the smarter move would be to wait if all the doom and gloom you predict comes true before you attempt to threaten SE and now probably permanently lose the chance of getting a physical CE.

Again, these changes aren't anything dramatic. They're simply saying that they will police bad behavior other than racism and sexual harassment.




Precisely this. People should hold off on their doom and gloom until they actually see people being banned for trivial reasons. I'm 99% certain there won't be an increase.

I initially bought it to only show my support because I liked the fanfest. I didn't really care about the items. No big deal if I can't get it again, someone else will get that cancelled order. Like I said I don't worship videogames even if I've been around since 1.0. No biggie. Expendable income goes to where I currently feel it should.

[Ryaz]

The things that get me are,

Expressions that unilaterally reject another's opinion- the whole thing about opinions is that everyone has one and they usually aren't the same as the next person. You basically killed any debate whatsoever and gave power to narcissists who believe their opinions are facts.

Expressions that contravene public morals- morals in one area of the world or a country may vary wildly. Morals are a personal thing and not an absolute. Morals among liberals, for example, tend to be completely different than morals for conservatives.

These two here are going to cause issues IF people started getting bans for trivial things. Now I don't think that will happen and I think most of the community plays it off as a joke (at least I think most of the threats of "reported" in Eureka are jokes), but we'll see what actually happens. Broad and vague rules usually lead to problems (just look at the Stand Your Ground in Florida and all the issues it has caused).

[Alael]

If you'd like, I can show you that they are pretty specific and easy to understand:

・Aggressive expressions such as violent language/slander/insult/threat. - Specific and self-explanatory (How you define what aggressive? based on what measure?)

・Expressions that provoke or belittle another person, such as excessive criticism, negation/ridicule - Specific and self-explanatory (What is provoke? where it does start and finish?)

・Expressions that significantly lack consideration for another person - While no examples are given, this is common sense. (Common sense like? Whats lack of consideration? cause this one can span so wide that could write 10 page with 10 different way to see it)

・Expressions that unilaterally reject another person's opinion - Some people don't understand what "unilateral" means. It means to decide/order yourself without any consultation. In other words, being a dictator. (but everyone is free to decide for himself and to try to convince the person he know about his opinion)

・Expressions that any reasonable person would find offensive - Again, common sense. Golden rule applies here (if you wouldn't want something said you to, don't say it to someone else) (Yes and no)

・Expressions that compel a playing style - Here, many people don't understand the word "compel". It means "to force". You can still suggests ways for someone to improve their playstyle. You just can't FORCE them to. (Yes but where you define the ‘’border’’ of compelling and a suggestion? Cause many would find something like ‘’Hey look cure 3 should not be used on single target but only on group’’ already compelling)

・Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc.
(Except when in accordance with rules set by an administrator such as a Free Company Master) - Pretty specific and self-explanatory (Yes and no if I decide I don’t want to play with someone I exclude him and if we have friend in common you can be sure if they have to decide between the two it wont end up favouring him/her)

・Expressions that contravene public order and morals - Again, common sense. (This one is so generic that they could have even just skipped it)

・Other expressions that are offensive to another person - This is the only somewhat vague listing, but still far from confusing. Again, Golden Rule applies. (Another one that is so vague that is best skipped)

[Kallera]

Are you impersonating SE staff? How am I your customer?

Looks more like she is showing how easily you can get on the wrong side of the new rules with just a short post. You completely disregarded another user's opinion with no further explanation.

[Jaywalker]

I've mentioned in other forums, but to people worried this is going to pave the way to abuses of power by the hyper-sensitive automatically and that we should be panicking at this stage... the company and staff culture (at least currently at SE) is DRAMATICALLY different from areas where the phenomenon you're worried about has taken hold. Right now you guys are largely citing "what if's" for something that when it happens, occurs on a massive scale and leaves zero doubt or ambiguity.

I do think raising concerns is appropriate! It's why I put my comment in asking questions (no idea if it'll get seen) and frankly I think just voicing worries as clearly, reasonably, and consistently as possible to game staff at this stage is going to be the best route. This is particularly because there was hesitation/reluctance to implement regulations like this at all. This isn't like building suspense or trolling, this is a situation where they don't want to alarm or alienate their player base. You're more likely to be heard.

When you get a hyper aggressive, consumer-hostile, corporate-policing community I've found that a few things need to be in place. One is that there needs to be massive ideological agreement within the company(s) concerned to the highest level of authority. That is how abuse of power not only occurs but is enabled for a prolonged period en masse. It's financial suicide. Keep in mind that this remains a JRPG and while I'm sure there is staff internationally, big bosses are based in Japan. The approach I just described is the last thing they want. I'd be worried about SE accidentally stumbling into a mess because Japan isn't tolerating that kind of insanity, but frankly if it happened with one person I'd expect them to be fired and for greater caution to be exercised. If it occurred on a wider scale, that would most likely get some major alarm bells going off.

[Hamada]

I initially bought it to only show my support because I liked the fanfest. I didn't really care about the items. No big deal if I can't get it again, someone else will get that cancelled order. Like I said I don't worship videogames even if I've been around since 1.0. No biggie. Expendable income goes to where I currently feel it should.

I really do wish more people had your logic, then we would not have loot box explosion and people defending it. I am glad there are those that can stand up to principle. I am still subbed for now but given the loss in friends, it is really up in the air what I am going to do.

[Gmasotti]

Looks more like she is showing how easily you can get on the wrong side of the new rules with just a short post. You completely disregarded another user's opinion with no further explanation.

This is precisely what worries me: the simple fact that a post that was quite obviously a jest was taking seriously and needed to be explained in the first place tells you loads about the potential for abusing these vague rules. I'll probably get banned from the forums for "impersonating SE staff".

[LalaRu]

Whole thread feels like "omg I cannot continue to play borderline with by bad behavior and walk away with it fine anymore, this must be fixed!".

[Freyt]

The irony is palpable.

On one side you have everyone simply trying to promote good values and free speech, with clear and succinct rules. I for one wouldn't mind harsher rules and harsher penalties, just as long as it's clear what is and isn't against the rules, and promotes truth and good behavior, rather than emotions and politically correct behavior.

On the other side you have people who make their point by arguing in the exact manner that the new rules say not to do, by rejecting others opinions completely with no reasoning, by accusing the other side of wrongdoing for simply have a different opinion than themselves, and even using aggressive language to try and force their point.

And ironically, the side that is against the new rules are against the rules that state the other side shouldn't behave like this, despite that if it were enforced here and now that it would completely eliminate their side. A few would remain to be sure. There are respectable posters on any side of any disagreement, but their voice would quickly be drowned out without the many disrespectful posters to back them up.