New ToS gives hope for official DPS meters?

[KaivaC]

See that's the thing. You don't have to understand my apprehension, and I really have nothing to justify to you or anyone else. To me, it's those not following the official TOS that need to justify to the rest of us why others should be parsed without consent and have to opt out if we don't like it. Whether it causes me any additional annoyance, harm, etc is really beside the point.




Sure, and I have hidden it. Why should I have had to though? Now cue people being suspicious and claiming I have something to hide, as though having something to hide is even an inherently bad thing. I have blinds on my windows too. And if you can pinpoint most problems by just eyeballing them then what's the need of a parser anyway?

You act like people are parsing because they want to see you in particular. That's...not how it works outside of raids most of the time. if you don't raid, what is the issue? Nobody really cares outside of high-end raiding. Seriously, most people really do not care outside of it.

[Nedkel]

Man, this topic is depressing for free will.
The idea that people are putting out is that parsers are bad, because people can't control themselves, and will become bullies. Inciting that parsers will cause the playerbase to be unhinged. Why do we have to assume that players are toxic and prohibit tools, because the assumption is that people are by default toxic.
We just got these new ToS rules that will punish offenders. Can't we play by 'innocent until proven guilty?"
I don't even know if I like the idea that the community would rather proactively restrict people on the off-chance they'd be toxic just to preserve some idealistic utopia. What are they going to do next? Remove our ability to type in PvP? I'd rather a gaming company treat me like a person with personal responsibility and not like a dog that needs to be muzzled, because they're distrustful of us out the gate. That's insulting to be honest.

Exactly.
If players calling others on their dps are toxic, what kind of players could it be that run bots in roullette or play on split screen on two accounts doing like bottom 1-10% on the performance chart for their job, making the duty at least two times harder and longer to the others who they are playing with?
And i mean here a real thing, because it happened to me already three times on last week, dps not doing their job properly, not using aoe abilities, not throwing out buffs or debuffs, doing single rotation to single target on a trash mobs pull, by the time it will be killed you used already all of your useful CD's since healer has to pull out more sweat as well when doing dps.
Someone playing dps properly does not mind, because he could dish out so much damage it does not matter if the other dps does anything useful, but he should place himself in a boots of a tank and healer who has to keep the party up for all that time in which dps is so low, it could be lower than a tank of healer...
Thats super cheesy if you meet a ultra-gray dpses on your tank or healer, really. It never happened to me before i gave myself a break from the game, but when i came back it is now somehow rampant. I dont really believe a bad player could be that bad, maybe if he is undergeared and plays the job for 1 time then maybe he could be gray under 20%, but other than that i think most of them are simply trolling or not paying any focus on the game at all, watching something on the second screen, because why should they care, if tank is alive and healer is "good" then it does not matter for them if the run will take 10, 20 or 30 minutes longer...

[spf1200]

Man, this topic is depressing for free will.

The idea that people are putting out is that parsers are bad, because people can't control themselves, and will become bullies. Inciting that parsers will cause the playerbase to be unhinged. Why do we have to assume that players are toxic and prohibit tools, because the assumption is that people are by default toxic.

We just got these new ToS rules that will punish offenders. Can't we play by 'innocent until proven guilty?"

I don't even know if I like the idea that the community would rather proactively restrict people on the off-chance they'd be toxic just to preserve some idealistic utopia. What are they going to do next? Remove our ability to type in PvP? I'd rather a gaming company treat me like a person with personal responsibility and not like a dog that needs to be muzzled, because they're distrustful of us out the gate. That's insulting to be honest.

Have you played games online before? There is no question that this would cause more bulling. A large portion of people online will use anything they can get their hands on to make themselves look better and put down everyone else. It is human nature and the added anonym let's more people feel comfortable doing it. There are already lots of people in this game that bully and insult others or minor things( my old FC fell apart due due to somebody calling ARR and expac) why would we want to give them a new target?

[JackHatchet]

Have you played games online before? There is no question that this would cause more bulling. A large portion of people online will use anything they can get their hands on to make themselves look better and put down everyone else. It is human nature and the added anonym let's more people feel comfortable doing it. There are already lots of people in this game that bully and insult others or minor things( my old FC fell apart due due to somebody calling ARR and expac) why would we want to give them a new target?

FFXIV isn't like other MMOs, and it's not anonymous. The ToS means that Square-Enix can jump in instantly punish anyone who breaks the rules by harassing other players. The moment someone harasses another person--they'll get suspended. People won't want to get suspended so they'll behave. And then we could enjoy DPS meters in peace. Bullies would be too afraid to lash out, because they'd lose their accounts. And those people who can't control themselves will get banned. It's really win/win.

[Insertcoins]

FFXIV isn't like other MMOs, and it's not anonymous. The ToS means that Square-Enix can jump in instantly punish anyone who breaks the rules by harassing other players. The moment someone harasses another person--they'll get suspended. People won't want to get suspended so they'll behave. And then we could enjoy DPS meters in peace. Bullies would be too afraid to lash out, because they'd lose their accounts. And those people who can't control themselves will get banned. It's really win/win.

You seem way too innocent here -hug- But seriously, those new rules are in place because we as players failed in a way. We couldn't police ourselves so now they have to be tighter with the rules, and seeing how people trolled hardcore when blu came out I don't blame them. Apparently asking people by nature to leave each other alone and be respectable is too much to ask. Hell if it was that easy we'll never have people being banned here OR people breaking laws with minor offenseives and life seriously would be BETTER. But we don't live in that world, XIV may not be LoL but it's def not 100% sunshine and rainbows. Hell look at the tales of the duty finder thread. I rest my case. Typing on my phone sucks. Even if it is a s9 plus.

[Penthea]

FFXIV isn't like other MMOs, and it's not anonymous. The ToS means that Square-Enix can jump in instantly punish anyone who breaks the rules by harassing other players. The moment someone harasses another person--they'll get suspended. People won't want to get suspended so they'll behave. And then we could enjoy DPS meters in peace. Bullies would be too afraid to lash out, because they'd lose their accounts. And those people who can't control themselves will get banned. It's really win/win.

Sorry but you're being very naive.

Tell me how will SE know about harassment if it's not reported? Not everyone reports harassment for many reasons I already told you about. SE don't have GMs hidden all over the game watching out for bad behaviour. The game doesn't magically know when harassment happens unless there is human intervention.

And what do you mean not like other mmos? Any mmo that takes your money makes the player lose some degree of anonymity, especially any with a subscription fee. I played WoW for ten years and even though back then (don't know about now) Blizzard handled harassment issues much faster and better than SE do, harassment continued to happen regularly anyway. It is frankly very wishful thinking to hope that any company could erase toxicity. The only way that would be possible is for the company to literally constantly babysit their entire playerbase.

[AxlStream]

Honestly, the whole community is depressing on this topic. I'd love to publicly use a parser as I like knowing the exact performance of my group to see who is the weak point and define how to address. Problem is the paranoia those against it have. Yet we have a thread with over 1k pages of bad DF performances. Double standards much?

[Penthea]

Honestly, the whole community is depressing on this topic. I'd love to publicly use a parser as I like knowing the exact performance of my group to see who is the weak point and define how to address. Problem is the paranoia those against it have. Yet we have a thread with over 1k pages of bad DF performances. Double standards much?

Lets not imply that all bad performance is related directly to dps numbers. A lot of those posts are about people being rude, getting into silly fights, or just being terrible at doing mechanics.

And the problem with parsers isn't paranoia. The problem is the people who don't use them properly.

I got parser-related abuse in WoW because my dps was crap in a low lvl dungeon. But it was crap because everything was getting two-shot and the majority of my dps came from dots. They didn't have time to tick. Explaining this didn't help at all, they just told me to L2P. This was far from the first time I saw a dot-based dps get called out on bad numbers that weren't their fault. I once was given crap because I was playing a race that didn't have a racial that boosted my dps in a freaking lvl 20-something dungeon. Everything was dying super fast, my dps was very close to the highest, but someone decided I was a problem anyway. I saw players get kicked from lvling dungeons because they didn't have heirloom gear (which a new player won't have access to) so their dps would be "too low"...in content where things died super fast even without that gear.

If you think people are just being paranoid then I have to say that you're very fortunate to not be aware of how insanely petty and mean players can be without a remotely good reason.

Everyone who says parsers aren't the problem are right. Because they're not. The problem is people. They're the ones whose misuse is preventing their implementation into the game. So if you want to complain at someone for the lack of parsers, I suggest you direct it at anyone who is using them incorrectly as a form of harassment because they are the reason why SE are so strongly against them.

And before you say they're a minority, let me remind you that it can take just one bad egg to ruin a combat experience for everyone. I have many times seen one unwarranted dps criticism descend into an entire group having an argument.

[JackHatchet]

Everyone who says parsers aren't the problem are right. Because they're not. The problem is people

Yeah, and if stricter rules from the change of the ToS results in a massive crackdown of toxic behavior--then we can get parsers? That's my question, lol. I know Parsers are difficult now, because we currently have toxic people. But Square-Enix wouldn;t be addressing their ToS unless they planned to strengthen their grip on toxic play. Which should make parsers usable, because all the toxic people will be suspended or paranoid of being suspended.

[AxlStream]

Oh please, of course people are the problem. I'm saying the problem people are on both sides of the fence here. Both the elitist jerks and the oversensitive pricks are to blame here.