The current formula of gear progression NEED CHANGE

[Derio]

It will still be BIS until roughly lvl75. And depending on how you did your weapon stats it could last up until 76.

It is mainly for glamour but the problem with this relic was it was delayed so much that the tome weapon was better option for most of the expansion.

[JunseiKei]

Horizontal progression adds armor that will be either the best gear you need or complete trash. There is nothing interesting about them. It's no different than now, add in more RNG and a poor "look customization!" proclamation if you're looking to min-max (and in this game where DPS is the only thing that seems to matter, that's all you really do). When I say add in more RNG, I mean go from getting guaranteed good loot to 1% drop rates, if even that high. Considering XIV moved even more away from this model (making it so leveling dungeons only drop gear that your party make-up has, giving you a free upgrade upon completion, a token for beating primals, normal raids and savage raids), I can't see them reverting back save for that "Eureka/FFXI-like content." Ugh. Didn't WoW add in some super RNG horizontal gear progression and suffered massive backlash for it? Yeah, we don't need that in XIV.

The relic weapons should be released sooner. They got moved back when, apparently, the raiding community griped that the weapons they spent so hard learning the fights for were just inferior to a weapon you could just grind out was actually listened to and taken seriously. Never mind learning the coil fights weren't nearly as terrible as the RNG drop rates of Atma, nor books requiring waiting on F.A.T.E.s that spawned once every 4 hours, and RNG drops from dungeons upon completion. Light grind, as well. Considering the savage fights are done in roughly a couple of days, I find it even less of a reason to wait months for the relic grind to even begin. SE will release upgrades to armor and accessories, but always limit weapon progression so much more, despite it being the absolute most important thing to upgrade in the game and hardcapping your potential damage. Why? For players that do savage to e-peen? That's always been a poor excuse in my book, but hey, opinions.

[Reynhart]

Horizontal progression adds armor that will be either the best gear you need or complete trash.

You can't bluntly remove all depth just because people would need to work for optimization. You'll just end with boring gear. Horizontal progression should be a thing so that you'd still want some gear even if you already have the most powerful "raw" set. For example, a fire resistance set should be better if you face a boss that use lots of Fire attack.
There's also no reason that every boss only differs by it's HP number. We could have more agile bosses when accuracy was a thing, we could also have more sturdy bosses, if critical hit worked the same as dragon quest. This way, even if you couldn't change your gear mid-fight like in FFXI, you'd still have some preparation to do depending of the ennemies you face.

[hydralus]

Just get rid of gear stats and give everyone the same stats depending on the content you're doing.

[Krojack]

The same can be said for savage raids too. Spend weeks or months on a boss and finally get a kill only to have a patch come out with new weapons 2 weeks later or better yet, buy the weapon from a vendor.

Eureka (or relics in general) is the casual players long grind to somewhat match the raiders long grind to get good weapons.

[Nariel]

You can't bluntly remove all depth just because people would need to work for optimization. You'll just end with boring gear. Horizontal progression should be a thing so that you'd still want some gear even if you already have the most powerful "raw" set. For example, a fire resistance set should be better if you face a boss that use lots of Fire attack.
There's also no reason that every boss only differs by it's HP number. We could have more agile bosses when accuracy was a thing, we could also have more sturdy bosses, if critical hit worked the same as dragon quest. This way, even if you couldn't change your gear mid-fight like in FFXI, you'd still have some preparation to do depending of the ennemies you face.

Yeah yeah yeah, except nowaday MMO is a popular genre. When MMO was populated by a comparatively small player base yeah sure Horizontal progression was a thing, playing MMO was a huge time sink activity, month to get the ultimate piece for your build, getting that one percent damage that make you better or more efficient for this fight but not another...

But hey its 2019 now, everybody can play MMO cause its fun but not everyone can give a game 4 years of its life for a pair of boots, people want to progress during their allocated playtime, most people don't care about being the top 1 player that can mash trought bahamut ultimate one second faster than Xxnaruto-the-king84628xX with his 95% fire resist runes and +849% damage to dragon legendary dagger. They want the sweet sweet sound of leveling up, that sweet ILV gain and feel rewarded for the mere hours they can spend on fighting bosses with their friends and go back to their live.

Live with your time gran'pa or go play another MMO that provide this so better horizontal progression, if they discard all those things decades ago its not by flipping coin. They have a business to run, boring nostalgia already gave birth to Crapreka.

[Aeloria]

How does a horizontal progression MMO works? I've heard people talk about it but nobody's spelled out exactly how that works beyond saying you sometimes get to keep the same item useful for longer.

Look at FFXI and its gear as a model for horizontal progression, at least mostly. It has had its Vertical moments as it went from a 75 cap game to eventually a 99 cap, eventually capping out with ilvl gear of 119 currently. There is some vertical with some of the 119 gear but mostly back on the horizontal path. You have multiple pieces of gear for each slot that you swap out based on the ability or spell that you are using.

[Seddrinth]

I actually think eureka weapons are too powerful for what people do to get them. They should be i395 at best.

[JunseiKei]

You can't bluntly remove all depth just because people would need to work for optimization. You'll just end with boring gear. Horizontal progression should be a thing so that you'd still want some gear even if you already have the most powerful "raw" set. For example, a fire resistance set should be better if you face a boss that use lots of Fire attack.
There's also no reason that every boss only differs by it's HP number. We could have more agile bosses when accuracy was a thing, we could also have more sturdy bosses, if critical hit worked the same as dragon quest. This way, even if you couldn't change your gear mid-fight like in FFXI, you'd still have some preparation to do depending of the ennemies you face.

The fire resistance stuff is talking about a system that does not exist in XIV outside of Eureka (you have the magia board for that effect). Accuracy used to be a stat that was then removed as a player request so healers could do damage without sacrificing good gear to hit accuracy caps. Players will always hit those accuracy caps anyway.

The critical hit system sounds like it'd force certain compositions because of how jobs work fundamentally. As it is, the XIV team has gone on to say since the Coil of Bahamut days, they will not force a group of players to have a certain job to do a fight. However, if you had a 'sturdy boss' fight that needed crits, you'd probably see more demands for critical-stat gear, but you'd probably find more people forcing compositions that force critical hits to appear the most amount of times: WAR, AST, SCH, DRG, BRD and maybe MNK.

The difference in fights is not just the boss's HP. It's also the mechanics in a fight. I guess FFXI mostly had you standing in one spot? Yeah, that's not really a thing in XIV. Well, maybe it is for some, and sometimes they die.

I don't know why anyone would want that in an MMO.

You want more options, but not necessarily viable options. These horizontal gear progressions being mentioned worked in other games because the game was built to have that progression in them to begin with. ARR onward has not functioned that way. I do believe someone else above me mentioned this already as well. (Nevermind, think that was a different thread? I'm tired.)

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I actually think eureka weapons are too powerful for what people do to get them. They should be i395 at best.

I dunno, ever since raiders started selling clears I havent really seen the raid weapons as that prestigious. Personally, now that this is a thing, I think SE should just make the relics match, since either way, you can get the best weapon without doing any work at all