we got a fourth tank

[Kaedan]

A better way even, is what WOW is doing, offensive stats provide mitigation. Strength/Agility provides parry chance and block value for people that use shields. Critical adds parry chance with diminishing returns, haste reduces the CDs of their active mitigation (in FFXIV PLD would have more sheltrons because faster autos) and so on.

This is a good concept.

There are a lot of games out there that let tanks use their offensive stats for defense, or defensive stats for offense. For example, in a mobile game I'm playing, the tank does extra damage when he attacks based on their defense stat. No reason SE couldn't have Tenacity add to damage as well.

[Risvertasashi]

This is a good concept.

There are a lot of games out there that let tanks use their offensive stats for defense, or defensive stats for offense. For example, in a mobile game I'm playing, the tank does extra damage when he attacks based on their defense stat. No reason SE couldn't have Tenacity add to damage as well.

Ironically, FF14 used to have this. SE removed it.

Well, technically speaking, it was deleted, readded, and then deleted again...

SE just doesn't seem to like it :/

[Kalise]

No reason SE couldn't have Tenacity add to damage as well.

Tenacity does add damage. Just far less than STR/CRIT/DH and even DET. So it isn't wanted. Especially because the mitigation it provides isn't needed.

VIT used to also give Tanks attack power. But then it was removed. I believe the reasoning "Tanks are doing too much damage" was given by Yoshida.

[Kaedan]

Tenacity does add damage. Just far less than STR/CRIT/DH and even DET. So it isn't wanted. Especially because the mitigation it provides isn't needed.

VIT used to also give Tanks attack power. But then it was removed. I believe the reasoning "Tanks are doing too much damage" was given by Yoshida.

Well yes, I thought it was understood I meant to have it affect damage more effectively than it does now. Sorry I wasn't clear.

But yeah, SE should look and see that tanks in savage content are pushing for more damage, so just adjust Tenacity to be more effective than adding the DPS-oriented stats.

[Phoenicia]

What they can do is make determination add damage reduction at half the rate it adds damage for tanks. Remove tenacity.

[Kreyd]

Right know tanks feel a bit like an undertuned dd. Since aggro combos are useless, PLD and WAR have a very simple 2 combo rotation + job gauge + mitigation skills for tb's. (1 combo + DA in DRK's case)

I would like a slightly more difficult rotation and active playstyle in terms of that a well played tank or executed rotation does not only improve our offense, but also our defense. Like:
A bad tank deals low dmg, but also gets a lot of dmg.
A good tank deals higher dmg, but also gets a lot of self heal/shields/sustain etc from his rotation.

As for tankstances. I think the best solution would be just scrapping them and let tanks deal more dmg/receive less dmg/generate more hate just by default. Many people dislike and avoid them at any possible situation. Why bother around with something that is literally denied by players?

[MistakeNot]

But yeah, SE should look and see that tanks in savage content are pushing for more damage, so just adjust Tenacity to be more effective than adding the DPS-oriented stats.

SE clearly do not want tanks to deal a lot of damage. They just don't seem to be able to figure out how to limit the dps of tanks without making the solo parts of the game into a real slog.

[Kabooa]

SE clearly do not want tanks to deal a lot of damage. They just don't seem to be able to figure out how to limit the dps of tanks without making the solo parts of the game into a real slog.

Stances being wider swings is one option.

Off Tanks / Solo tanks simply doing more damage in DPS stance is fine, if while main tanking there's actual risk to not being in tank stance.

[Ramesses]

What they can do is make determination add damage reduction at half the rate it adds damage for tanks. Remove tenacity.

Just changing gears for a second... I had to establish that I actually found your sigs funny.

[Kalise]

SE clearly do not want tanks to deal a lot of damage. They just don't seem to be able to figure out how to limit the dps of tanks without making the solo parts of the game into a real slog.

I'm not entirely sure they really care about how the solo game plays out.

If they did, they'd do something about Healers and how their solo play is a REAL slog, what with even more simple rotations and much worse DPS.

Often, the issue with them limiting tank DPS is the complaints from tanks when they do things such as limit the stats on Accessories (Whereby Tanks then just ignore them and just use crafted accessories melded for DPS stats...)

Stances being wider swings is one option.

Off Tanks / Solo tanks simply doing more damage in DPS stance is fine, if while main tanking there's actual risk to not being in tank stance.

The issue with this is the backlash they'd get if they FORCED people to be in Tank stance for actually Tanking.

At this point, Tanks have been in this situation so long that many people have been vocal about how they would HATE it if they had to be in Tank stance in order to Tank. As they're used to the "Lel just DPS" style of Tank play.

Of course, this is only if Tank stance was necessary and not just going to create a situation where Tanks just tell Healers to heal/shield them more because Tanks having more freedom to push DPS > Healers having more freedom to push DPS. Due to Tanks having higher base damage and thus higher returns from pushing it.

Which highlights the main problem, which is that at some point, in order to make a change to fit their idea that Tanks shouldn't be pumping out near DPS levels of damage, they're going to have to make an unpopular decision and stick to it.

Though, I can't see them doing that any time soon, I don't think they quite have the numbers to risk losing a fair chunk of the Tanking population who'd get upset if Tanks weren't just beefy DPS.