Is Tanking Boring?

[Kabooa]

No rotations are "hard.".

Neither is mitigation, threat, positioning, or "General raid awareness".

Of the list, all of those responsibilities are shared by every role.

[Refrain695]

I suppose this thread is an appropriate place to throw my ideas in. I won't toss out potency and mitigation amount since I am no game dev. however the concept is more what I'm trying to pitch:
If tanks were required to be in Tank stance in standard content (be that raids or dungeons) and the "rotation" revovled around mitigating damage. We have seen some implementations with this concept in mind with inner beast and WAR beast guage and PLD with sheltron. I recently created a post regarding these changes and what would be required to implement them, and I do have an idea in mind on how a few of the tanks would function under this.
For DRK they would be more along the lines of "health shield" tank based off TBN and would generate a health shield in some way throughout thier combos so while primary threat target this recource would be used to ensure survivability of tank Buster's auto attacks etc. however with dps stance active (grit off in thier case) this shield recource can be expended on dps skills so that tanks like myself who enjoy dealing damage still can assist toward burning phases, dps checks and the like. This also plays to the DRK style of "spending health" to do damage. An additional skill can be thrown in that procs upon taking damage so that unavoidable AOE's aren't necessarily taking away from thier damaging tool once the player is hit.
WAR could actually play similarly to it's current state with this concept in mind. Just increase the parry rate while under Defiance a large margin and have inner beast do what it does currently with higher mitigation or increase max HP to fit WAR theme. Throw in more skills similar to upheaval that scale off hp so that the tools usually used to mitigate damage in tank stance still have relevance when out.
I unfortunately do not have any ideas for PLD, since I am very inexperienced with it, but I'm sure a similar design could be made for them too.

TLDR I agree that Tanking is a bit unintuitive and would like content to be scaled so tanks needed to be in tank stance when primary threat target and used same recources when in dps stance to deal damage

[Nedkel]

Neither is mitigation, threat, positioning, or "General raid awareness".

Of the list, all of those responsibilities are shared by every role.

- doing your own rotation as tank
- paying attention to the resources you have (DRK)
- keeping an eye on enmity of each player and monster, execute the enmity exchange between you and other tank in raid
- organising pace of the run (in dungeon)
- placing the pulled mob/boss into appropriate place and direction, keeping in mind the melee positionals
- Keep and eye on healer in case of danger use support ability to prevent him from dying
- know when and which deffesive cooldowns you have to use against each encounter or boss move
- execute run mechanics, dodge the red without mixing up too much your team position.

And on top of it, if dps will mess up his rotation it will not hurt the team as much as tank running around with boss or dropping his enmity, or tank not using his support skills which could have saved the run. There is no comparison in responsibility for both classes.

@edit
Also i want to add this.
Dps has their rotation more complicated and there is more depth in it, however its something you could learn your muscles in the hand to execute it almost automaticly, and after some time playing each job you dont have to memorise or even think about. Tanks on the other hand cant relay their work on the muscle memory, they have to constantly look around, watch healers, players, boss and what moves does it use and accordingly react to those factors all the time, each dungeon or alliance raid run is different from the earlier one, dps rotations doesnt change at all and thats their 80% of the work to do.

[Kabooa]

- doing your own rotation as tank
- paying attention to the resources you have (DRK)
- keeping an eye on enmity of each player and monster, execute the enmity exchange between you and other tank in raid
- organising pace of the run (in dungeon)
- placing the pulled mob/boss into appropriate place and direction, keeping in mind the melee positionals
- Keep and eye on healer in case of danger use support ability to prevent him from dying
- know when and which deffesive cooldowns you have to use against each encounter or boss move
- execute run mechanics, dodge the red without mixing up too much your team position.

- doing your own rotation as any job
- paying attention to the resources you have (Any job)
- keeping an eye on enmity of yourself and your tanks, reducing as necessary
- Executing the pace of the run (in dungeon)
- Positioning yourself to ensure minimal damage and maximum output
- Keep an eye on healer to use support ability, from MP to damage mitigation
- know when and which defensive cooldowns you have to use against each encounter or boss move
- execute run mechanics, dodge the red while maintaining optimal position with regards to party and boss mechanics

[Kaitoo]

- doing your own rotation as tank
- paying attention to the resources you have (DRK)
- keeping an eye on enmity of each player and monster, execute the enmity exchange between you and other tank in raid
- organising pace of the run (in dungeon)
- placing the pulled mob/boss into appropriate place and direction, keeping in mind the melee positionals
- Keep and eye on healer in case of danger use support ability to prevent him from dying
- know when and which deffesive cooldowns you have to use against each encounter or boss move
- execute run mechanics, dodge the red without mixing up too much your team position.

And on top of it, if dps will mess up his rotation it will not hurt the team as much as tank running around with boss or dropping his enmity, or tank not using his support skills which could have saved the run. There is no comparison in responsibility for both classes.

@edit
Also i want to add this.
Dps has their rotation more complicated and there is more depth in it, however its something you could learn your muscles in the hand to execute it almost automaticly, and after some time playing each job you dont have to memorise or even think about. Tanks on the other hand cant relay their work on the muscle memory, they have to constantly look around, watch healers, players, boss and what moves does it use and accordingly react to those factors all the time, each dungeon or alliance raid run is different from the earlier one, dps rotations doesnt change at all and thats their 80% of the work to do.

not only is this list laughlable your edit is some next level reality warping. So dps is auto brain memory mode but tanks need much more! You know, the only content where tankings is not a snooze fest and is a challange, in a raid, were everything is scripted and you can line up your cds on tank busters like clockworrk...

wowsies

[Katie_Kitty]

I suppose this thread is an appropriate place to throw my ideas in. I won't toss out potency and mitigation amount since I am no game dev. however the concept is more what I'm trying to pitch:
If tanks were required to be in Tank stance in standard content (be that raids or dungeons) and the "rotation" revovled around mitigating damage. We have seen some implementations with this concept in mind with inner beast and WAR beast guage and PLD with sheltron. I recently created a post regarding these changes and what would be required to implement them, and I do have an idea in mind on how a few of the tanks would function under this.
For DRK they would be more along the lines of "health shield" tank based off TBN and would generate a health shield in some way throughout thier combos so while primary threat target this recource would be used to ensure survivability of tank Buster's auto attacks etc. however with dps stance active (grit off in thier case) this shield recource can be expended on dps skills so that tanks like myself who enjoy dealing damage still can assist toward burning phases, dps checks and the like. This also plays to the DRK style of "spending health" to do damage. An additional skill can be thrown in that procs upon taking damage so that unavoidable AOE's aren't necessarily taking away from thier damaging tool once the player is hit.
WAR could actually play similarly to it's current state with this concept in mind. Just increase the parry rate while under Defiance a large margin and have inner beast do what it does currently with higher mitigation or increase max HP to fit WAR theme. Throw in more skills similar to upheaval that scale off hp so that the tools usually used to mitigate damage in tank stance still have relevance when out.
I unfortunately do not have any ideas for PLD, since I am very inexperienced with it, but I'm sure a similar design could be made for them too.

TLDR I agree that Tanking is a bit unintuitive and would like content to be scaled so tanks needed to be in tank stance when primary threat target and used same recources when in dps stance to deal damage

I don't see why tank classes should be reduced to pure meatshield-tier. This is like saying healers should only have spells designed around healing and that encounters should be designed to force them to do nothing but heal. Why should DPS get to have all the fun? Plenty of people like myself enjoy the challenge of being the tank/focal point of opponents while also pushing yourself to do more damage without unduly harming your threat maintenance or mitigation/staying alive. Same goes for healers, plenty of healers love balancing healing with doing as much DPS as they can. The game is great in that sense, so why change it?

[Nedkel]

- doing your own rotation as any job
- paying attention to the resources you have (Any job)
- keeping an eye on enmity of yourself and your tanks, reducing as necessary
- Executing the pace of the run (in dungeon)
- Positioning yourself to ensure minimal damage and maximum output
- Keep an eye on healer to use support ability, from MP to damage mitigation
- know when and which defensive cooldowns you have to use against each encounter or boss move
- execute run mechanics, dodge the red while maintaining optimal position with regards to party and boss mechanics

Majority what have you stated here is just adjusting yourself to the team movements, you as a dps your decision making are very very limited to only yourself, do damage and dont die, while tank on the other hand have to organise it entirely from scratch and decide a lot during the run, will it be alliance raid or dungeon or whatever.
You cant just go in and do aoe damage to some random mobs as a tank, with dps you certainly do, even if you pull a mob to yourself it doesnt change anything since a tank will hate to pull it back or the mobs is going to die anyway. On both classes you want to focus on doing damage, so its not thing exclusive to the dps only.

not only is this list laughlable your edit is some next level reality warping. So dps is auto brain memory mode but tanks need much more! You know, the only content where tankings is not a snooze fest and is a challange, in a raid, were everything is scripted and you can line up your cds on tank busters like clockworrk...

wowsies

There is a difference between knowing the raids from feet to toe, and knowing how to do your rotation properly which doesnt change.
You entirely ignore other parts of the content, why do you think i am only talking about the job done by a tank in raids? I am speaking about all parts of the content.
Also not every action done by the raid or trial boss is scripted, some of them are pure rng, so there are players and healers who has to adjust to them leaving you alone. You dont have such responsibilities like a healer or a tank on DPS, your job is to make highest dps and dodge red and execute some mechanics thats all, there is no place for someone to ruin your personal responsibilities in doing as much dmg as possible, like in case of tanks or healers who has to adjust to others and play it around, because someone making a mistake will give them hard time making a decision what they should do next. Those two jobs are more random than DPS, thus are harder to play. Not to mention, you doing a mistake has any hard consequences outside of savage raids with timer, tank dying by a tank buster could cost a lot if the other tank doesnt have enmity coz he is on offensive stance, there is a big difference in the weight of the mistakes for each class isnt it? You are hardly ever judged by anyone for your poor performance if you are a dps, due to many things like you cant argue someone dps because its auto-ban for you. Dps are easier class to play, that is no doubt.
If you dont understand it, i dont care, not going to continue this argument in this thread.

[Refrain695]

I don't see why tank classes should be reduced to pure meatshield-tier. This is like saying healers should only have spells designed around healing and that encounters should be designed to force them to do nothing but heal. Why should DPS get to have all the fun? Plenty of people like myself enjoy the challenge of being the tank/focal point of opponents while also pushing yourself to do more damage without unduly harming your threat maintenance or mitigation/staying alive. Same goes for healers, plenty of healers love balancing healing with doing as much DPS as they can. The game is great in that sense, so why change it?

I just think that mitigating damage should be a bit more proactive than pressing one or two buttons for a tankbuster. I'm with you on tanks actively concerning themselves with thier damage contribution, I enjoy it as well! But I think there is a way to keep this design philosophy while making it much more intuitive to tank/mitigate.

[Kabooa]

while tank on the other hand have to organise it entirely from scratch and decide a lot during the run, will it be alliance raid or dungeon or whatever. .

Lol.

"Run from one wall to the next, spam aoes, and don't stand in aoe zones."

[Izsha]

Boring is entirely relative. If you have mastered the fundamentals of this game and the special skills involved in tanking, tanking is a snooze fest. if you have not mastered game fundamentals and skills involved in tanking it can be challenging or downright overwhelming.

This entire question is somewhat flawed. it is similar to asking "is tanking easy?". Well for expert tanks, why yes. Very. For newer/less skilled tanks No. It is not easy. These kinds of questions are entirely relative to the ability of the player. Boring. Easy. Interesting. Hard. There is no 1 answer. There are just people that fall along the entire spectrum depending on personal experience and skill at the task.