BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

[MrKimper]

That's not what I said. You came with a "Do you want a different BLU ?" option and I replied "Sure, what BLU are you suggesting ?", to which you basicaly answered "I have no idea". Which is sad, when other people, like GucciSan, actually provided suggestions, which I found very interesting as a compromise. I even suggested myself how one skill could be tweaked to fit party play. That's discussing.

No that's you saying "I don't like this option unless you elaborate on it" to a poll that's mostly supposed to be a vague direction, then you saying the poll doesn't matter since it should have a concrete idea behind or else it's just making an empty promise. That's not discussing that's you having a negative opinion out of the gate when I already said you could attach whatever idea you could see to either choice. Which is why there are four of them, moving the goalpost is just moving the goal post.

[Reynhart]

Two job stones, all blue mages start out with the unchained (wording is irrelevant lol - insert with your favorite word if you want, just we need to be consistent for the sake of this posts clarity).

Basically, you're suggesting that they made two jobs. Your example of Death is literally two different skills, so I think it's pretty close. If they have done that, I'm not sure we would have two additional jobs in SH. So, from your suggestion, the first choice would be "Would you like a BLU...etc, etc...at the cost of one less job in SH ?"
I'm not sure if that many people would vote for that.

No that's you saying "I don't like this option unless you elaborate on it"

No, it's me saying "I don't vote for vague options". You know, what people should actually do if they want to give an educated opinion. Especially considering the previous poll exchange ended with "that poll is flawed". And instead of providing one example, you replied four times with how the poll is completely valid despite being completely vague. And more, you assumed that I'd defend the current BLU no matter what, just so you'd be a victim and not have to elaborate on your idea.

That's a fair point since DRK isn't limited however, I'm reviewing what we have not what we'll have if it's unlimited

But my concern and me mentioning DRK was a reply to what additionnal work a non-limited BLU would have to do to be on par with other jobs.

[Shougun]

Basically, you're suggesting that they made two jobs. Your example of Death is literally two different skills, so I think it's pretty close. If they have done, I'm not sure we would have two additional jobs in SH. So, from your suggestion, the first choice would be "Would you like a BLU...etc, etc...at the cost of one less job in SH ?"
I'm not sure if that many people would vote for that.

I'm not sure that people would have a problem with that, if it was introduced that way from the beginning haha . "We're going to have two jobs for SB", info we already have. "One of them is going to be an advanced job with some side content everyone can take part in even if they don't spend time to main it. Advanced jobs are going to bring you additional ways to play the game and spice up the general progression (blue mage learns abilities but levels faster)."

Community: "oh that's different, I wanted some more side content.". Or "Finally I wanted to main blue mage for so long, and new side content? Noice!".

At this point though yeah I think people would be annoyed, if SE said "We're canceling a job for blue mage". Because now you're taking something away (taking away is almost always a negative reaction lol); however, if we started out with the above then I don't think the community would be annoyed - sincerely I don't. To be fair I didn't share a time line with you in the post but I believe they could, maybe, get three jobs out (like they've done before) by starting these advanced jobs in limited state (like now) and updating them into an advanced state over patches (but also telling players their plan lol). Such that you get two at the launch of an expansion and one put between two expansions with explicit info to the community that the limited job becomes advanced, that they're using this as an opportunity to develop new content and get us more jobs than they could normally.

Also worth noting that while the skills have some different effects this job will utilize many of the assets already developed such that Blue Mage becoming an advanced job is more cost effective now than making a new job entirely (many assets are already made, and in game - lore, art, code).

6.5 content begins to lull, beastmaster is released.
7.X (earlier is better, but I'm assuming 7.3-7.5), beastmaster is advanced job. Side beastmaster content is continued to be developed as community enjoys it and SE has ideas.

[MrKimper]

No, it's me saying "I don't vote for vague options".

No that's you saying "I don't like this option unless you elaborate on it"

And once again you restate what I've already said, I told you the point of the poll was to give you a general idea and options of how you would WANT BLU to advance moving forward. You then stated that option one was flawed because it wasn't elaborated upon and then stated what you felt it would have to do to "keep the spirit of BLU" a topic that was not even the focus of the poll because as has been shown in both BLU's separate iterations and how we all perceive BLU it varies from person to person and from game to game.

You then stated that Yoshida already stated that this was how he envisioned keeping BLU as close to what it was, spiritually and that if I couldn't elaborate on what I thought option 1 was, it was just an empty promise and not, as I previously stated, simply an option that people might have wanted on a poll.

You only had a problem with option one, and never so much as mentioned any of the other one's and continuously hyper focused on it being "too vague" and "not a feasible option" there's no playing the victim here I'm simply stating what your replies were, in wholesale.

The issue with the previous strawpoll was that it was heavily skewed with little options to pick from and was basically asking "Do you want a cookie cutter job or a unique job with solo content" and had ONLY those two choices with no leg room if you were say, someone that liked solo content but wanted to use duty finder.

Either way you're just gaslighting at this point and as I've said this conversation won't go anywhere so there's not much of a reason to continue it and derail the thread, if you want to vote, vote, if you don't, don't.

[Reynhart]

I'm not sure that people would have a problem with that, if it was introduced that way from the beginning haha .

Considering they teased Gunblade from a long time, it would have ended with a tank (Arguably), a DPS with chained-BLU, and a limited DPS with unchained-BLU. So, my assumption is that healer population would have been pretty upset. And since hope goes toward a Dancer healer, I'd rather stay with the limited BLU. But that's just me.

You only had a problem with option one, and never so much as mentioned any of the other one's and continuously hyper focused on it being "too vague" and "not a feasible option" there's no playing the victim here I'm simply stating what your replies were, in wholesale.

Yes because option one is the only one who advocate for mixing two views, which is the best option to please basically everyone, and thus the one I'm most interested in, if it was doable. What a shock !
And yes, I'm not sure it would be feasible, but I hoped you had actually thought about it instead of simply creating a poll which won't actually prove anything about what could be done.

And I'm pretty sure you'll eventually use the poll results to show that what SE did was wrong and that they should have done option 1.

[Shougun]

Considering they teased Gunblade from a long time, it would have ended with a tank (Arguably), a DPS with chained-BLU, and a limited DPS with unchained-BLU. So, my assumption is that healer population would have been pretty upset. And since hope goes toward a Dancer healer, I'd rather stay with the limited BLU. But that's just me.

Hmm, I was approaching the question like both jobs were unknown but if we evaluate it assuming gunblade as tank then yeah lol I could see that being more fuel. Which of course makes me a bigger fan of 2 jobs now and 1 job over a longer time frame haha. Of course we both know that's the most demanding option but I feel if we give them enough time it isn't "unfeasible" . With the added benefit that they've got a head start on it being completed, due to assets already existing now.

Lets say we had NO info on Shadowborn I might imagine two job release with blue mage being like this:
Dancer is healer
Blue Mage is advanced job with unchained being basically a damage dealer / solo (as we have now), and chained being tank.

Which would, imo, be a bit better than we have now with people who exclusively play DD getting not much from the new jobs (assuming gunblade tank, dancer healer).

That said I believe in your example to me would cause healers to be upset, that if gunblade is real (tank) and blue mage is damage dealer. Healer will be like "u wot?" haha. So approaching it as if "shadowborn is two jobs, do you think people would be mad?" no - given that we don't have what we're having now lol (or at least without assuming gunblade is actually a job, it seems very likely). At this point canceling one job, or letting healers down, would add more fuel to the fire. And imo the best choice would be to make blue mage "advanced" over a period of patches (giving players for SB a tank and healer).

[Reynhart]

Lets say we had NO info on Shadowborn

Considering we got two DPS in Stormblood, people would have been upset if we didn't have healer/tank for SH...although to be fair, it's not actually confirmed we'll have another healer

On another topic, the more I think of it, the more appealing it feels to replace gear with spell hunting for BLU. It would break the mold of grinding tomes every 6 months, and you could still aim for the same content, with some skills being available only in Savage on even patches, and in the next 24-man raid, exactly like the upgrade system for gear. You would replace obsolete spells the same way you replace obsolete gear, for example replacing 1 000 needles by 10 000 needles, or even 100 000 needles in a few years, etc...And the spells you equip could have a corresponding "ilvl" that would work with the DF or RF requirement.

[Shougun]

Considering we got two DPS in Stormblood, people would have been upset if we didn't have healer/tank for SH...although to be fair, it's not actually confirmed we'll have another healer

On another topic, the more I think of it, the more appealing it feels to replace gear with spell hunting for BLU. It would break the mold of grinding tomes every 6 months, and you could still aim for the same content, with some skills being available only in Savage on even patches, and in the next 24-man raid, exactly like the upgrade system for gear. You would replace obsolete spells the same way you replace obsolete gear, for example replacing 1 000 needles by 10 000 needles, or even 100 000 needles in a few years, etc...And the spells you equip could have a corresponding "ilvl" that would work with the DF or RF requirement.

I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me or agreeing haha, sorry XD. Are you quoting that line because you're like "yeah, we should be getting a healer and tank otherwise people will be upset" (which is really me agreeing with you first lol) or were you under the interpretation that I said something counter to that?

Just in case I meant by that line if we had no info/leaks/trailers to go off or if for some thal knows why reason I had personally made the plan for SE - I'd of course follow the SB+ needs to be tank and healer, by making dancer healer and tank blue mage (aka if I could go back in time and wipe away the gunblade tank hype, which I would NOT do now - just leads to further upset). While unchained (non-DF version of blue) would be very strong/unbalanced damage/solo power with some hints to tanking style, in attempt to give DD players a palate cleanser of destruction as well as an easy and comfortable taste of tank (like SMN does, somewhat, for SCH - DD to healer, blue mage is the gateway of DD to tank). In that way while yes technically DD received no job in the expansion yet they would have something down their alley (for cleaning up old content that no one is running, also where normally wipe mechanics can't be solo'd, and getting a wonder of what it'd be like to be tank, maybe converting some people along the way). Of course if they go the three job route then everyone gets one job, given enough time (Tank/Healer right away and DD a bit later via advanced blue).

As for the idea of spells = gear/ilvl, that's an interesting concept.. Obviously it'd need a few systems, checks and balances, but given enough creativity and careful crafting it might work~ Certainly would be a different concept. Worse case scenario for "gating" some of the progress like other jobs have with weekly tomestones would be unlocking special arenas to learn spells from (you unlock fights against special monsters that have spells to learn to up your "ilvl", or less fun increase the % of earning a spell that's hard to get).

[Jandor]

On another topic, the more I think of it, the more appealing it feels to replace gear with spell hunting for BLU. You would replace obsolete spells the same way you replace obsolete gear, for example replacing 1 000 needles by 10 000 needles, or even 100 000 needles in a few years, etc...And the spells you equip could have a corresponding "ilvl" that would work with the DF or RF requirement.

That's a genuinely interesting idea.

[MrKimper]

Yes because option one is the only one who advocate for mixing two views, which is the best option to please basically everyone, and thus the one I'm most interested in, if it was doable. What a shock !
And yes, I'm not sure it would be feasible, but I hoped you had actually thought about it instead of simply creating a poll which won't actually prove anything about what could be done.

And I'm pretty sure you'll eventually use the poll results to show that what SE did was wrong and that they should have done option 1.

It's just a poll, whatever you or anyone chooses to do or suggest ideas for whichever option, is completely up to you/the community to discuss, when I made the option in mind, I thought something like only getting an update on solo content maybe once an expansion hence the CUT BACK on solo content option. Some people might not want that and might want carnival updates, some people might want only skill updates but less carnival updates.

Do you see what I'm saying? talk and discuss it with others how you feel the intricacies of the option should be. That's all, anyway no more replies from me.