As an FFXI player, thank you for Limited Jobs and BLU SE

[Elerus]

I believe that was just Final Fantasy 6.

I believe in 6, Mog learned Dances by fighting in different terrain and climates, and the exact dance he performed from a set was random. Dancer would fit right into a limited class, as would any other, if Square so chooses. Which means we'll be right back here a gain when it's Dancer, or Beastmaster, etc. The entire "limited" job concept needs to go. More solo content tailored and specific for each class? Great. Cutting those classes off at the knees with only feeble and transparent excuses as to why? Bad.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/M...nal_Fantasy_VI)

[KokonoeAiyoko]

I believe in 6, Mog learned Dances by fighting in different terrain and climates, and the exact dance he performed from a set was random. Dancer would fit right into a limited class, as would any other, if Square so chooses. Which means we'll be right back here a gain when it's Dancer, or Beastmaster, etc. The entire "limited" job concept needs to go. More solo content tailored and specific for each class? Great. Cutting those classes off at the knees with only feeble and transparent excuses as to why? Bad.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/M...nal_Fantasy_VI)

But then you look at all the other various Final Fantasy games that don't do that.

Once again, Blue Mage has always been known to learn moves in annoying methods. Dancer has one game where it learns stuff like this and it was never repeated again.

And when said job appeared in FFXI, the game that was more unforgiving than this one, there was nothing necessary for you to do outside of leveling up to obtain all abilities.

Nothing to worry about really.

[Lambdafish]

The success it enjoyed was entirely due to the Final Fantasy IP, and having the (at the time) commercial juggernaut of SquareSoft be able to continuously throw money away to support it. It was well over a year after the game's initial release before it attracted enough subscribers to break even.
If that game had been released by any other company you would not even know it ever existed.

Counter point: Star Wars: The Old Republic, a game which had to change to a F2P model due to a loss of interest and declining subscriptions. And please don't tell me that the Final Fantasy IP is more valuable than Star Wars (or even KOTOR for that matter).

The simple fact is that FFXI stays afloat because it has enough people enjoying it to justify its existance. Doesn't matter if lots of people hate it vocally if enough people like it then it is a success. Now get off your high horse and say what you really mean: You don't like XI and you are butthurt that others don't share your opinion.

[Dualgunner]

Counter point: Star Wars: The Old Republic, a game which had to change to a F2P model due to a loss of interest and declining subscriptions. And please don't tell me that the Final Fantasy IP is more valuable than Star Wars (or even KOTOR for that matter).

TBF one's in Disney's pocket and the other is in Disney's bed.

[Lambdafish]

TBF one's in Disney's pocket and the other is in Disney's bed.

And Disney knows how to make money. My point was that a good IP doesn't make a bad game immune from crashing and burning.

[KokonoeAiyoko]

Now get off your high horse and say what you really mean: You don't like XI and you are butthurt that others don't share your opinion.

Imagine if the FFXIV 2.0 purists acted this way about the rest of the content from other FF games?

"STOP DON'T TURN THIS GAME INTO FF1 WE DONT NEED MATOYA HERE! AND STOP REFERENCING THE WARRIORS OF LIGHT"
"UGH GOD WHAT ARE YOU DOING SE?!? ADDING A MOTORCYCLE??? AND THE LIMIT BREAK IS CLOUD'S BUSTER SWORD!? THIS IS NOT FFVII!"
"THE ROYAL CITY OF RABANSTRE??? AND VIERA?!?! GET THIS FFXII CONTENT OUT OF MY FACE! THIS IS NOT FFXII!"
"HOW DARE SE GIVE US LEVEL-SYNC FROM FFXI!? STOP CHANGING THIS GAME INTO SOMETHING IT'S NOT!"

Like that's not even 2% of how much this game takes away from other FF games, and the ironic thing is... this game takes the MOST from FFXI. But suddenly it's bad to add FFXI styled content. What a joke.

[TheHeavenAbyss]

Imagine if the FFXIV 2.0 purists acted this way about the rest of the content from other FF games?

"STOP DON'T TURN THIS GAME INTO FF1 WE DONT NEED MATOYA HERE! AND STOP REFERENCING THE WARRIORS OF LIGHT"
"UGH GOD WHAT ARE YOU DOING SE?!? ADDING A MOTORCYCLE??? AND THE LIMIT BREAK IS CLOUD'S BUSTER SWORD!? THIS IS NOT FFVII!"
"THE ROYAL CITY OF RABANSTRE??? AND VIERA?!?! GET THIS FFXII CONTENT OUT OF MY FACE! THIS IS NOT FFXII!"
"HOW DARE SE GIVE US LEVEL-SYNC FROM FFXI!? STOP CHANGING THIS GAME INTO SOMETHING IT'S NOT!"

Like that's not even 2% of how much this game takes away from other FF games, and the ironic thing is... this game takes the MOST from FFXI. But suddenly it's bad to add FFXI styled content. What a joke.

It's one thing to use lore elements and references to others FFs (that's what FF series has always done), it's a completely different thing to try to make game mechanics more like other FFs, FFXI in this case. Why? Because when FFXIV 1.0 launched one of the big reasons it crashed and burned was that it was trying too hard to work like FFXI, when the general market wouldn't respond as well to such outdated concepts in MMO game design (the reason why FFXIV was even made was because they wanted to make another FFXI). Now, to be fair, that wasn't the only problem with 1.0. Maybe, in competent hands, a modern FFXI look-alike might've worked. But the point is that FFXIV has no reason to try and be more like FFXI in game mechanics. The only time it tried it failed big time. The other times it tried at least in side content (Eureka and this iteration of BLU apparently) has at the very least generated controversy.

I never played FFXI (I've only read reviews that talked me out of trying based on the gameplay, but I'll gladly grant that it is not necessarily representative of the game's quality). I've only watched the story's cutscenes, and it's a very good story. I understand why people would feel nostalgic about that world. I understand that many people had a blast playing FFXI. Heck, it survives to this day with a dedicated and passionate playerbase, so it's clearly doing something right. And I've absolutely no issue about adding lore elements that pay homage to FFXI.

But everytime people talk about about adding this race from another FF to FFXIV or some raid based on another FF, people talk about "FFXIV's own identity". Well, let it have his own identity in how its gameplay works and how it handles the jobs in said gameplay.

[KokonoeAiyoko]

Because when FFXIV 1.0 launched one of the big reasons it crashed and burned was that it was trying too hard to work like FFXI, when the general market wouldn't respond as well to such outdated concepts in MMO game design (the reason why FFXIV was even made was because they wanted to make another FFXI).

Gonna stop you right here. Absolutely wrong.

FFXIV 1.0 wasn't even FFXI, and that wasn't why it failed. It failed cause it was a completely barebones game that didn't even have ANYTHING the series is known for such as the jobs we all know and love. Everything was basic, the combat was terrible with no depth. You can't say that about FFXI as it had that from the very beginning, and a much more refined game mechanically and the maps were far better designed and much more interesting story.

[TheHeavenAbyss]

Gonna stop you right here. Absolutely wrong.

FFXIV 1.0 wasn't even FFXI, and that wasn't why it failed. It failed cause it was a completely barebones game that didn't even have ANYTHING the series is known for such as the jobs we all know and love. Everything was basic, the combat was terrible with no depth. You can't say that about FFXI as it had that from the very beginning, and a much more refined game mechanically and the maps were far better designed and much more interesting story.

But it was. Developers have said it in documentaries. I've said it was not the only reason, because obviously it wasn't. But one of the big reasons was that the team was too confident in how FFXI was made and they just had to make more of the same, without having any idea of how the MMO market had changed. Maybe it was also poorly made as a FFXI look-alike, but that doesn't contradict the "one of the big reasons it crashed and burned was that it was trying too hard to work like FFXI".

EDIT: Sorry it the "but it was" was confusing. English is not my first language. The "but it was" wasn't meant to refer to "but FFXIV was FFXI", it was reaffirming what I said about "when FFXIV 1.0 launched one of the big reasons it crashed and burned was that it was trying too hard to work like FFXI".

[KokonoeAiyoko]

But it was. Developers have said it in documentaries. I've said it was not the only reason, because obviously it wasn't. But one of the big reasons was that the team was too confident in how FFXI was made and they just had to make more of the same, without having any idea of how the MMO market had changed. Maybe it was also poorly made as FFXI look-alike, but that doesn't contradict the "one of the big reasons it crashed and burned was that it was trying too hard to work like FFXI".

It failed cause it sucked, it didn't fail cause it was FFXI cause it wasn't FFXI even if it was trying to be that in any degree. It would be like saying Super Mario Sunshine sucks because it's trying to be Mario 64 and Mario 64 is outdated.