You know how easy Ghimlyt is compared to the Burn when the latter had complaint threads about its difficulty in its first week and the former didn't.
You know how easy Ghimlyt is compared to the Burn when the latter had complaint threads about its difficulty in its first week and the former didn't.
I think that you are overestimating the the level of players of this game in general. It happens all the time, players that do extreme primals or savage, or have just been playing the game for very long, assume a certain level of competence should be met by players. If you queue into expert roulette, however, you will clearly see that this is not the case. Generally you won't find more than one of the three players you are matched with have an "acceptable" level of competence with their class.
You can debate why that is the case, but I don't think that raising expert dungeon difficulty is going to do anything to improve it. All leveling dungeons have been nerfed to such a degree that they never demand anything more than the smallest understanding of what to do in a dungeon. If anything, this is where we should be asking for an increase in difficulty. But old players complain that they just want to do it as quickly as possible because they have done them so many times before, and new players think it is the best thing to rush through to endgame instead of savoring all the game's content. Almost every leveling dungeon now teaches you to just ignore adds and push the boss, instead of them constantly re-enforcing the complete opposite before.
Anyway, you need to keep in mind the target audience and the purpose of expert dungeons. They are content mainly for players who rarely do extreme trials and don't touch savage content. Their purpose is mainly to get tomes for players that don't collect much gear in other ways.
You can see the history of how they became so linear and streamlined: we had to run them many times in a week because it was by far the most efficient way to get the tomes you needed to keep up with gear. They became repetitive, and when they were too difficult or complicated it made it hard for players to keep up with the minimum level of progression. Over time, the bonus given by expert roulette, as well as the amount given by the dungeons themselves has been increased to the point where you rarely need to do more than a few each week.
So, I don't think that changing the difficulty level of the current expert dungeons is the right thing to do as they have their own place as they currently are. Instead, I think that they should add a new type of savage/extreme dungeon that is pitched at a higher difficulty, around extreme primals or the first two savage fights of a tier.
The first big advantage is that it is optional and we don't include imposingly difficult fights as a roadblock in the story.
The second advantage is that they can make it more difficult than the minor increase between say ghimlyt dark and the burn. To me it is the perfect place to add more midcore (whatever that means) difficulty content.
The biggest advantage, imo, is that they don't have to stick to the format of the current expert dungeons. If the dungeon doesn't need to be run repeatedly in order to farm tomes, they can experiment with different formats or challenges. I think it would be great to have a place where the devs can try out interesting ideas without impacting the day to day progression of more casual players, and I'm interested to see what they can come up with.
tl;dr I think they should keep expert roulette dungeons as they currently are and add a new type of dungeons at a higher difficulty level instead
Last edited by number473; 01-17-2019 at 08:57 PM. Reason: original text too long
I want to clarify that I feel it's already too late to really do anything about current dungeons. Expansion will be upon us soon, and it really doesn't make sense to change how leveling dungeons have been done to this point.
My comments reflect how I feel content should be stepping up at level 80. I feel like while Grimlyht was a step back difficulty wise from the Burn, it was still a nice dungeon. I'd just like the devs to actually make players play smartly once they hit those level 80 dungeons. Of course the Burn is rather easy after seeing it for the first time, whereas AV and the vault still retain at least some measure of difficulty (mostly on account of being locked out of a few key skills) that require players to actually play smartly.
You can raise the difficulty without having a negative impact on those casual players. It's not like I'm asking for a sudden jump in difficulty.
I feel like the Burn was only "difficult" because of how hard things hit. The trash and final boss hit particularly hard when it first came out, now that the average ilevel of (most) people is higher things are dying faster and tanks are taking less damage. It doesn't seem so difficult anymore.
I guess the final boss can be considered difficult because of his dash mechanic that you can't see from most angles, but I hardly think that's enough to justify the whole dungeon as hard. Most final bosses in dungeons have a bit of a difficulty spike compared to the previous bosses. I think the Vault and Doma Castle are good examples of "difficult" dungeons as at least 2/3 of their bosses constantly keep you on your toes.
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Oh for Pete sake. It's a dungeon. Not all dungeons are built with the intent on difficulty. Some are hard, some are just fun romps, and some are meant to tell a story like this one.
If you want hard core stuff then I encourage you to do Ex and Savage content. Or run dungeons under geared if you really need that extra difficulty.
Isn't that because at 4.4 we had an iLvl increase so people were a bit more wonky gear wise, while up until Ghymlit we have decently geared up in between?
I don't care about difficulty in dungeons overall, I don't mind a bit of challenge here and there. I'm more into making dungeons less boring. Ghymlit is ok because the setting is quite impressive, avec the NPC wandering around kind of make it fun (although I'm not sure I'll be saying this in a few months).
The burn is still a bit tight for some players, so healing there makes it not brain dead.
But I hate dungeons like the Swallow's Compass where everything seems endless, even with good DPS.
Personally I don't think MSQ dungeons should be difficult. Everyone has to do them, and I'd like to be able to breeze through and crack on with the story.
Well, I like some challenge in the dungeons when the patch comes out, but I remember when I started playing around the time SB came out and just wanted to get on with the story to catch up and the lv60 dungeons just felt tiring to do.
The easier the content I have to use DF to do the better especially since the introduction of jump pots.
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