A question about ancient Ivalice's location in the timeline

[Damascar]

(if a post like this already exist i apologize ,i'll delete this immediatly ).
So now that the Return to ivalice story is completed, do we have enough data to speculate when the events of Ramza & co took place during the ffxiv timeline ?
May it be one of first civilizations born during the 2nd era ? Or the Durai Papers are one of the few descriptions of the 4th lost era ? or all happened during the 5th era ?

[Anonymoose]

I've been meaning to cross-reference all those hints and totally forgot about it.

No time like the present I guess!

[Kreyd]

In some quest textes where stated, that the Lions war took place about 1000 years (or summers) ago. So in the 6th era around the time the dragon war began.

[Damascar]

you sure about it ? All sources i found either put it on the 5th era or doesn't mention a specific time for it ... what quests specifically gives those infos?

[ObsidianFire]

We know Dalmasca has been around for a thousand years already. Ivalice is even older then Dalmasca is. So old Rabanaster was built on top of the Ivalician capital and none of the Dalmascan's ever found out about it.

In addition, Ramza and Delita's story is about the start of Ivalice's Golden Age. So there's probably a rather large gap between Ivalice and the start of Dalmasca. I'd say Ivalice (and probably Goug) would have to have been in the 5th Astral Era at the earliest.

[Damascar]

aye that's my idea too. Considering how Ultima became self-consciouse because of worship, i say it's either the 4th or the 2nd era!

[Tinibou]

I'd love that Ivalice was more like one of the 14th reflection of the world and all ^^

[Anonymoose]

The problem is that it appears as though there are several gaps.
It'll take me a while to put the whole thing back together from all the vague "summers" and "centuries" and "over a thousands" but...

Rabanastre has stood for over a thousand years. Jenomis claims the Durai Papers are "more than a thousand summers" old, so perhaps not that much time between the fall of Ivalice and the rise of Dalmasca, but we see "Warriors of Light" spoken of in these cutscenes and those (last we were told) only appear vaguely around Umbral Eras, so perhaps the War of the Lions was around the time of the Sixth Umbral Era. (Hence, "antediluvian city" and accusations that Ridorana was a gate to the "Hell of Water".)

And then "several centuries" before that is the time of Saint Ajora, who (allegedly) summoned Ultima. In Final Fantasy Tactics, it would have been about 1200 years before the War of the Lions, but who knows what's true here. However, if we take Ajora's Zodiac Braves also as Warriors of Light, perhaps around the time of the Fifth Umbral Era. Except Orran tells Delita that once upon a time, Hydaelyn Herself sealed Ultima... "countless centuries" ago. Same event? Different events? (And why does this sound eerily similar to the "Presence of Silvertear"?)

Now, the lore book claims there were at least eight comings of the Zodiac Braves. And it still says "eight" after I tagged it with, "Just making sure: Eight?" so it must mean eight (or Eorzean scholars assume eight is true when it is not). Could it be that there are multiple Calamity-level events happening at one time in multiple places...? Could it be that history is misinterpreting Warrior of Light vs. just some band of heroes worth remembering...?

And then you have Mikoto and Cid discussing whether Ultima (the High Seraph) somehow had something to do with inspiring Ultima (the spell), except they claim that Utima was an Allagan spell when Lahabrea claims the magicks within the Heart of Sabik are a sliver of Zodiark which has "lain dormant for eons" and the Heart was "an enigma whose surface even the vaunted scholars of ancient Allag failed to scratch", and then moreover Cid claims Omega is from another dimension despite us just having the revelation that - while it could travel between the shards and witness things from across time and space - it was just from another planet, same as Midgardsormr, so I question whether they know what in the seventh hell they're talking about... (or if we do...?)

I have a nagging paranoia that some of these hints are meant to be connected to the Asicans and Zodiark as early XIV parallels for the Lucavi but ... it's just an itch, and one that I can't seem to get close to scratching. Maybe not.

Speculate speculate speculate.

One thing I notice is that Ultima, a "seraph" (the word "angel" deliberately avoided) comes around the same time we're hearing Kuribu (cherub) reframed as being from yet another dimension. Perhaps this is being quietly linked to a Shadowbringers set-up for "holy Empyrean horrors" of some kind. (Perhaps not.)

[Damascar]

Another thing to throw in the pot , ascians share a connection with the lucavi apparently , having the name of the scions opposing them and all. Maybe (and probably) it's only a matter of references and fanservice , but maybe.... only Shadowbringer will tell ! Anyway , ty for the answers all!

[Jonnycbad]

Just make sure to know that FFT/FFXII have nothing to do with FFXIV and the FFXIV version of events relating to the actual games are SEPARATE. In the canon history of Ivalice in FFT/FFXII, FFXII takes place first, then there's a big cataclysm, followed by the events of FFT centuries later (as Airships don't exist in FFT and have been long since past from FFXII times). In FFXIV, the FFT Ivalice is more ancient and the newer kingdoms of Dalmasca/Rbaanastre are more recent.


As for Lucavi, they are likely born of Auracites which are localized compact units of pure aether. Like a super dense elementally charged crystal, but full of prayers too. So ordinarily, to summon, you need prayers+aether. Most ARR primals came from beast tribe prayers+literal tons of generic elemental crystals. I put it to you that Auracites are an All-in-one package. Has aetheric traces/memories of past wielders and itself is densely charged with aether. Just need a "catalyst" or someone in dire need of the stone's power. If the wielder has negative emotions such as revenge or desire for power, they are transformed into a Lucavi (Primal), if their wishes are benevolent, the power is used to grant a limited wish (healing, revival) or other miracle. There is precedent for this type of summoning with regards to a human being transformed (Thordan/Shiva), and for an object to be both a "battery" of densely gathered aether as well as prayers (Ama-no-marakumo used to summon Susano without a "summoner" or neaby crystals). It looks like Ultima created them all because when you approach her, she literally generates a handful of Auracites, charges them with power and then drops them at her feet in hopes you'll take them and leave her alone.