BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

[SDaemon]

Because a lower level cap is one of the limitations that make BLU a limited job. You know, that thing SE themselves said it was. A job in XIV can do whatever a limited job can, the other way around doesn't work.

Both jobs and "limited' jobs are being classified as a job. So something is not meshing between your criteria and SE's as to what constitutes a job. I'm just trying to understand what.

[BillyKaplan]

Both jobs and "limited' jobs are being classified as a job. So something is not meshing between your criteria and SE's as to what constitutes a job. I'm just trying to understand what.

The fact that BLU is a limited job, and they should've advertised it as such. Because no one is going to look at the site and think "yeah that thing's going to be capped at level 50 and I will have no df access whatsoever".
The semantic you're championing is exactly what they're hiding behind, and why I called it a lie of omission. You can sort of say they're not wrong - a limited job is a subset of jobs in the game, with limitations. But there's a lot that they're not saying when they call it simply a "job", too.
Will be interesting to see how many "I made a forum account just to ask why BLU is capped at 50" or things along those lines

[SDaemon]

The fact that BLU is a limited job, and they should've advertised it as such. Because no one is going to look at the site and think "yeah that thing's going to be capped at level 50 and I will have no df access whatsoever".
The semantic you're championing is exactly what they're hiding behind, and why I called it a lie of omission. You can sort of say they're not wrong - a limited job is a subset of jobs in the game, with limitations. But there's a lot that they're not saying when they call it simply a "job", too.
Will be interesting to see how many "I made an account just to ask why BLU i

I'm not championing semantics. You're championing the differences between the two focused on limitations and not what about the both of them make it a job. There isn't any arguing that limited jobs cannot do things that the other jobs can and content available to the limited job that isn't to the others. I'm arguing that those differences don't make it not a job in regards to what a job actually is and as such announcing it as a new job isn't false advertisement. Could SE have gone into great deal about BLUs design on the patch site? Sure. I don't see the necessity of that though. Its restrictions and available content will be clearly given to players in-game. If someone unlocks BLU and then is confused why they can't level past 50 or join the DF that isn't on SE who provided them with that information when they unlocked it.

[Mikki]

I think the real problem is the fact that they have over 100 abilities already planned for Blue Mage.. compare that to the roughly 25 for current classes (and even that they want to trim down if I'm not mistaken, albiet for bloat reasons more so than balancing but still). Yes, they can only have a certain number of spells active at one time.... but in order to balance it properly, they have to consider ALL of the spells and how each can interact with one another. This is a nightmare for the dev team, I'd imagine. The only way I could see this working is if they restrict what spells can be used in raid content, which I think people would be pretty unhappy about and it would make it kind of messy because they want you to find the abilities on your own but you need to have certain ones in order to raid and it'd just be a pretty confusing scenario, honestly.

[ReiMakoto]

I think the real problem is the fact that they have over 100 abilities already planned for Blue Mage.. compare that to the roughly 25 for current classes (and even that they want to trim down if I'm not mistaken, albiet for bloat reasons more so than balancing but still). Yes, they can only have a certain number of spells active at one time.... but in order to balance it properly, they have to consider ALL of the spells and how each can interact with one another. This is a nightmare for the dev team, I'd imagine. The only way I could see this working is if they restrict what spells can be used in raid content, which I think people would be pretty unhappy about and it would make it kind of messy because they want you to find the abilities on your own but you need to have certain ones in order to raid and it'd just be a pretty confusing scenario, honestly.

From the few skills we've seen, some already seem to be kinda worthless, for example the fish slap ability has 10 potency, so that doesn't need balancing so if there are other abilities like that which are funny but bad then that narrows it down, theres also the potential of repeat skills, ie frost breath, aqua breath ect, which have the exact same function but hit different elemental weakness in the carnival, if we assume a few of these "Functionally idenetical but different looking" with the situational/ useless ones, a usable rotation of 24 could be reached out of 100 skills.

[BillyKaplan]

They also said in one of the recent interviews or what not that if only by virtue of how much anything costs, you'd have to devise a rotation anyway. And these rotations likely aren't going to be out from thin air, they were designed intentionally.

[Fyce]

You need to take a good look at your posts in this thread then.

But hardly anyone wants to remove the Masked Carnival element and the spellbook log. The complaints are requests for adding content to the game in the form of BLU as an unlimited, proper job. And you have made your claim why you don't think that would work or that they devs shouldn't invest in it, but that's neither here nor there. Unless I missed some crusade to get Masked Carnival burned down since last time I posted here, no one wants to take anything away from anyone, at least not on the side of people who want to see BLU unlocked.

Whoa there as Billy said no one is saying anything about ripping out the carnival, at least im not, im saying i want it in df and raids as well, at a proper level. Im not defending people wanting content being stripped out. And as billy pointed out you are doing exactly what you are on a crusade against people with another opinion to you.

I'm sorry? I absolutly never asked for some content to be removed or stopped because I didn't like it, or because "I don't think it fits in a MMORPG". Not even LoV or Mahjong. And if you didn't see the countless people and the upvotes they got when they said that they'd rather see BLU never implemented than this Limited version, then yeah, you have no clue at who exactly was my post directed to.
I mean... this very thread is called "SE, the concept of "Limited Jobs" is a really bad idea, turn back now", has 157 upvotes, and the OP used the "this is an MMORPG" argument. And while the OP doesn't openly say that they'd want Limited BLU removed (they want it "adjusted" whatever that means), some others in that thread were not as kind.
I could find you other examples, but I have a feeling that it'd be a waste of time and effort for a dissapointing result.

Besides, I always admitted that if it was possible and realistic to please everyone, then it would be wonderful. Or maybe you thought that because I debunked some bad ideas/solutions that wouldn't work, I was against pleasing everyone? If that's the case, then stop it right now, because you are deeply mistaken.

You're shifting the goalposts now about evidence, of course theres no evidence specifically about blue mage, we only just got it announced.

I don't know what you're talking about. It has always been about BLU. I'm not moving goalposts. What I'm telling you is that there is no correlation between them changing their mind on something, and them changing their minds on BLU. Again, it's not because there are cases of them shifting plans that you can assume that they'll always to that. That's all I'm saying.
But let's be clear here, because the subject is slowly moving away. I'm not saying that "I hoped that SE would change their mind" is wrong. It was about people who were surprised that SE didn't change their mind when there was no reason to be surprised.

As for "that data is not for you", true its for marketing. Im not trying to say Yoshi and co arn't satisfied, im saying im not satisfied and neither should any player, because we don't know its origin. It'd be like me saying in an essay 70% of killer whales prefer the taste of human, then when asked about it I say, well im satisfied with where i got the data so there. And before you be a pedant and say its not an essay so it doesnt apply, it does, if you throw out statistics you need to back them up. Why do you need to do this? Because 70% of people agree with me from data ive gathered from non descript locations, and im satisfied.

What did you expect exactly? Yoshida putting out a Powerpoint about how their community team gather data, on what websites, what metric they find relevant, how many people were audited, etc... all in the middle of an interview session? If that's the only kind of data you are willing to accept, then I'm sorry but you will never get it.
So, simply ignore the "70%" and just go with "Yoshida is happy with the feedback they got", because that's all what matters in the end. The number itself is pretty irrelevant. Trying to argue against it will achieve absolutly nothing.

[Burningskull]

I think the real problem is the fact that they have over 100 abilities already planned for Blue Mage.. compare that to the roughly 25 for current classes (and even that they want to trim down if I'm not mistaken, albiet for bloat reasons more so than balancing but still). Yes, they can only have a certain number of spells active at one time.... but in order to balance it properly, they have to consider ALL of the spells and how each can interact with one another. This is a nightmare for the dev team, I'd imagine. The only way I could see this working is if they restrict what spells can be used in raid content, which I think people would be pretty unhappy about and it would make it kind of messy because they want you to find the abilities on your own but you need to have certain ones in order to raid and it'd just be a pretty confusing scenario, honestly.

They don't need to balance BLU's abilities around raiding cause you're not going to be able to do any current level content. They have said in an interview that it was difficult to expect BLU to be lvl 80 in Shadowbringers. And having OP abilities in content you can Unsync isn't really a problem. There are still the 24 man raids that you can't unsync but good luck getting a pre made party every time you want to do one one BLU

[Arkdra]

It's entirely possible they may change their minds on blu, but there is no world where they do it now. Maybe in time for 5.0 if they get a lot of real blowback about it or it ends up with use numbers similar to verminion, but that's pretty unlikely. They're not going to cave on content that nobody has really tried, and there was especially no chance that they go back on it from between when it was announced back in november to now.

Edit: Honestly, if they were going to kill the limited job concept and convert blue over I wouldn't expect it until around 5.3. Seems like about the amount of time it would take to get it balanced while still doing all the other balancing work they will inevitably need to do, such as buffing warriors again the very second they aren't mandatory.

[Burningskull]

It's entirely possible they may change their minds on blu, but there is no world where they do it now. Maybe in time for 5.0 if they get a lot of real blowback about it or it ends up with use numbers similar to verminion, but that's pretty unlikely. They're not going to cave on content that nobody has really tried, and there was especially no chance that they go back on it from between when it was announced back in november to now.

Edit: Honestly, if they were going to kill the limited job concept and convert blue over I wouldn't expect it until around 5.3. Seems like about the amount of time it would take to get it balanced while still doing all the other balancing work they will inevitably need to do, such as buffing warriors again the very second they aren't mandatory.

If Limited jobs or BLU in general are not successful it probably wouldn't get reworked till 6.0